New Forumite - UK Based

[Simes]

Hello Folks,
My Wife and I are new to this forum, we are living onboard our Ferro Cement Hulled Gaff Schooner. This is our second year of life aboard and w are just lovin it!
Moored on the River Medina half way from Cowes to the Folly Inn, we have become a stopping place for water taxis and friends wanting a cuppa or a chat.
We have 2 to 3 years left here on the Isle of Wight before we head off to water blue. This will see our Daughter into Uni and will give Nita and I time to get the major systems on-line.
We have a wonderfull life and many fantastic friends, can't wait to make more here.

Regards

Simon

[scallywag]

Welcome Simon,
What a fantastic plan. May your winds blow fair as your dreams come true.
John

[Jolly Roger]

Welcome! I live in Orlando, Florida, but I know the Medina and the Folley very well. I stopped off for the night when delivering a Bavaria from Falmouth to Brighton nine months ago. Nice spot, 'cept for those S’westerlies in the winter. I’m looking for a 45/50’ schooner, but staysail rig, not a gaffer, and I don’t mind ferro either because I lived on a Windboats Endurance, which was superb, for seven years. This is the best sailing forum I know, with a wealth of experience which people are not shy about offering.

[Simes]

Hi Jolly Roger,

We are correctly a "Gaff Rigg, Stays'l Schooner".

We set Gaff and Tops'l on the main mast.
Upper and lower fisherman stays'l twix the masts,
Working Jib, Intermediate and flying Jibs from the formast and the bow sprit.

Gets a bit scary from time to time.

just love gaff and schooners though.

Simes

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Simon,
Welcome aboard! Good to have you here. Your post is interesting and very informative. The only schooner I crewed on was a 3 masted marconi rigged schooner with not too many different sail options just fore, main and mizzen with a couple of headsails. We did have a big squaresail to hoist when going downwind but that was about it.
Kind regards,
JohnL

[Simes]

On the sail plan for Talisman is shown the option of flying a Square S'l of the formast. Not sure how to rig the spar to the mast yet but I am thinking about it. Too many other jobs to complete before we look at auxillary sails.

The Schooner sail plan is pretty good for a sort handed crew as there are so many small sails, lightly loaded lines and the three lower sails are all self tacking (Main, Yankee and Working jib).

There are not many Gaff Schooners arond Europe, The ones that are here are very big players on the classic's circuit, Adix, Mariquitta, Altair etc, not much to base a 45' wl schooner on.

Any help or advice will always be welcome.

Simon

[Jolly Roger]

I might have the answer for you Simes.
We own a real estate office in Orlando, Florida, and been well and truly stiffed by the housing meltdown, which has stymied my boat buying plans for the time being. However, I have not been idle, and with the assistance of a major mast manufacturer, I have designed and built a prototype of a roller furling square sail, to convert a Schooner into a Brigantine. I have some experience sailing these rigs and for ocean passage making there is nothing finer—providing you have a reliable means to easily reef or furl the sail(s). The traditional method is out for a small boat, because you won’t have the crew, but there have been other ideas, e.g. running the sail out like a curtain, then brail it to the mast. But if you could roll the sail up into its yard, it is possible to not only furl it completely, thereby reducing windage, but to also progressively reef it. The operative word is ‘reliable means’ because unlike a roller furling jib or main, a 500 square foot sail jammed thirty feet up the mast on a twenty four foot long horizontal yard could not be hand wound in or unhanded as the wind pipes up. I believe I have reduced this eventuality to a plausible minimum, but in case a jamb does occur the yard(s) can be lowered to deck level on a track mounted on the front of the foremast. The remainder of the conversion is pretty simple, with lifts, braces and tacks, and depending on the size, running backstays. All I need now is a foremast to fix the darn thing to.
There is also no reason why a square sail should not be fitted to an ocean cruising ketch, but the term Hermaphrodite ketch does not have the same ring as Brigantine.

[swagman]

G'day Simes.

Welcome to the site. Weather permitting, might be drifting past you on Saturday pm en route to the Folly with some up country guests. Will shout a hello.
Cheers
JOHN

[Simes]

Hi Jollyroger,

Sounds like an interesting idea, my plan was to use a series of small blocks and then to run the bunt lines down the front of the square and up the back through the block and gather them at the mast (rather like a Junk but horizontally).
Apparently this sail plan for a Schooner with one or more squares set on the for mast is "Tops'l Schooner". My understanding is that a Brigantine has no fore and aft sails set twixt the masts?

How does you idea work in practice and will it be commercially available or may I use the idea?

Simes

[Talbot]

IIRC joshua slocum occassionally added a square sail on a yard to the rog of his spray. - must read that book again.

[Jolly Roger]

Hi Simes
I’m sure there are different interpretations of the rig, but most indicate a two masted (or more) vessel, having at least two square sails set on the foremast. A topsail schooner has only a single square tops’l set on the fore. A Brig is not shorthand for a Brigantine, (as some people use it), since it has square sails set on the mainmast as well. All three are principally fore and aft rigged, with ‘tweenmast staysails and/or gaff sails.
Brailing the sail to its yards is the traditional furling method, then sending hands aloft to gasket the sail. Buntlines, clewlines and leechlines will not furl the sale sufficiently, but which small boat owner has enough crew to finish the job, even assuming you could drive them up the ratlines, which you would need on both shrouds. This is therefore not a practical method. A safer method is to haul the sail into the mast on a track, like curtains, and brail it to the mast. I have sailed such a boat and it works, but the disadvantage of either method is the sail cannot be progressively reefed; it is either all in, or all out—not a very good idea.
My roller furling yard “invention” is not new and used on a number of square riggers, one of which is “The Lord Nelson” which has roller furling Royals. At least it did two years ago, but they had problems with jamming and may have thrown it away it by now. There are also plenty of square sails on all sorts of rigs, and I once saw one on a sloop, but I have never seen a roller furling yard on a small boat. Yet this is the obvious answer, requiring no work aloft and ability to partially reef.
Having looked at many designs and the pros and cons, the main problems stem from the driving method for the mandrel inside the yard. I discounted electric and hydraulic motors, because of weight, cable length/flexibility, and the imperative of being able to lower the yards quickly if there is a jam. I now have a proprietary rope device which does not employ gears, thereby removing the principal reason for jamming. Other important considerations are mandrel strength, (i.e. sag), yard size, (inside capacity, not length), and the entry slot, not to mention the mast and its existing stays. I think I have them all pretty much solved using proprietary equipment, which needs very little actual alteration, but I confess I have not tried it, full size, on a boat—yet.
You being in England and me in Florida makes this difficult, but if anyone is game enough to give it a shot nearer me I would like to hear from them.
I don’t envisage any commercial value, or even much interest, but if you are passagemaking in the trades there is nothing finer, or easier, than rolling downwind under square sails.