4 or 5 Knots to know?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Even though i've been sailing for years and years
I had no formal certifications, so two years ago
I spent a few weeks at a RYA school
tested to Coastal Skipper
A big item was how to cleat a line.
Seems i've been doing it wrong for years
The RYA method is OXO
so you don't need fingers to undo
Therefore
What do you consider the correct method
This is gonna be fun
Cheers
Neil

Not really sure what OXO means. Guessing the line makes one full circle around the base (O), then two crossovers (X), then another circle around the base (O). If that's what they're saying then in my opinion they're doing it wrong.

And what do they mean by you don't need fingers to undo. I can generally undo a cleat hitch the way I do it with one hand and no fingers.

To see "my" way I posted a link earlier in the thread.

[thomm225]

For the crew, (and Skipper as well ) maybe

figure 8
Bowline
Cleat
half hitch

That's all that's needed..........

[davewtsnape]

Mostly I only ever use these 4

1 - Bowline
2 - Round turn two half hitches
3 - Clove hitch
4 - Reef

Oh, and a figure eight for a stoppper knot

If you can get your newbies to do these successfully you will be laughing. Anything else would be for an advanced class, e.g. Rolling hitch, sheet bend

[Pete7]

OXO is also what I have been taught. Be interested to see why people think its wrong.

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Even though i've been sailing for years and years
I had no formal certifications, so two years ago
I spent a few weeks at a RYA school
tested to Coastal Skipper
A big item was how to cleat a line.
Seems i've been doing it wrong for years
The RYA method is OXO
so you don't need fingers to undo
Therefore
What do you consider the correct method
This is gonna be fun
Cheers
Neil

[akprb]

Truckers Hitch I don't think I've heard mentioned yet, super handy for securing paddle boards. Kayaks, et al.

Becket (sheet) bend and rolling hitch two other very useful ones along with how to tie off to a piling ;-)

[GrowleyMonster]

Makng a line fast to a cleat, go around the base of the cleat and under the far horn first, then the second. Then figure eights. One. Two. A half turn around the base, essentially. When you continue around the base and meet the standing part again, you risk jamming the line, depending on its size relative to the cleat size. Then use as many figure eights as you think you need. A final half hitch on one horn is only called for when the line wll not come under heavy strain, and the line might otherwise be whipped off the cleat by the wind. For a dock cleat, let me tell you, with a large change of water level that line can be under strain approaching 1/4 the actual weight of the boat. When pulled tight from underneath, that half hitch will lock up tighter than Jack Benny's coin purse. I have had to cut a few mooring lines "fixed" by good samaritans who thought a half hitch was required. If a storm tide might cover the pier and wash an unsecured line off a cleat, just add a few loose round turns around the works, after ensuring that there are enough figure eight turns. With a storm tide, you DON'T want your dock lines jammed so that they cannot be loosened in a hurry!

Onward. Bowline, Figure Eight or stopper knot, square knot, constrictor knot, double sheet bend, Fishermans Knot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman%27s_knot) and any more will just cause confusion. Constrictor knot is handy for an emergency whipping. Square knot can be useful when furling a mainsail. Easily confused with the granny knot so it must be demonstrated and practiced. A double sheet bend holds much better in synthetic ropes than a regular sheet bend. The fishermans knot is useful for quickly repairing a parted sheet or roller furling line. Joins two similar size lines together quickly and securely. The rolling hitch is quite useful as someone else pointed out, for stopping off a line that has overrun on a winch and transferring the strain to another winch. Okay, thats it. Concentrate on the bowline. Anybody who can tie a bowline can tie a bowline in a bowline to bend two lines together, so you could maybe forget about the double sheet bend or the Fishermans knot, too.

[FionaJC]

I used to teach cadets sailing on dinghies and larger cruisers. I made sure that by the age of 12 they knew the following, useful on wet, windy non sailing days. It became a competition maybe with adults beer could be an incentive in the races?

How to use a cleat
Bowline, Standard, one handed, on oneself
Clove Hitch
Figure 8
Reef
Rolling hitch for riding turns
Granny knot - to learn to be avoided

And most of all when to use what.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by skipmac

#1, how to correctly attach a line to a cleat. Seems simple but I would estimate half the cleats I see in marinas are done incorrectly.

Totally agree with this.

The line goes directly to the furthest part of the cleat. So simple, and yet so rarely done.

Personally, I detest locking hitches on cleats. They can be impossible to undo, especially when wet or when it really matters. Two full turns and a wrap around the base. Simple and safe.

My personal favorite knot is the double 8. Many times a bowline is used when really a double 8 is needed.

More important that knowing knots would be how to coil a line. If you wrap it around your elbow and wrist you will be asked to leave my boat.

[Tayana42]

No one has mentioned a double slipped reef knot for tying your shoes. (Also called a bow.)

[hamburking]

YOU want them to know how to do useful things. THEY (your guests) are not interested in such mundane tasks. Guests want to sit pretty, get a tan, a selfie, and a buzz from your beer/booze. The only knot they might want to learn is the turks head, to tie a bracelet on their wrist. Its a sociable knot, a keepsake of the trip, and makes them feel special.

And if assistance is needed to tie a string bikini, be sure to use a thief knot.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by KimSails

Sorry to digress, but...No full turn on the cleat hitch?

I tie a cleat by hooking each horn of the cleat exactly twice, no more, no less. The first horn must be the one furthest from the load. The first two hooks are around the base. This results in the "full turn" being between 180 and 360 degrees around the base, depending upon the direction of the load.

The animated knots link posted above, with the load parallel to the horn, is how I would tie it and that would be the most "full turn" that I would ever do. Most real-world situations would be something less than this because the cleat should installed at an angle to the typical load.

For those of you advocating no full turn, I am curious if this is what you mean, or if you only hook the furthest horn and then do the first cross over (three hooks on the cleat in total)?

Yes, I agree with you. By "no full turn", I mean that the line does go round both legs initially, but does NOT go past the initial lead in under the first horn. i.e. the same as your "between 180 and 360°.

It does NOT mean starting the crossover over after only passing around One LEG.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by hamburking

YOU want them to know how to do useful things. THEY (your guests) are not interested in such mundane tasks. Guests want to sit pretty, get a tan, a selfie, and a buzz from your beer/booze. The only knot they might want to learn is the turks head, to tie a bracelet on their wrist. Its a sociable knot, a keepsake of the trip, and makes them feel special.

And if assistance is needed to tie a string bikini, be sure to use a thief knot.

But some of one's guests might like to be invited a second time. I believe this has been one of the most generally useful threads in quite some time. Interestingly, despite the divergence of opinions, there things have been close enough to allow an informed captain to make reasonable choices without being worried about the right ones. In my opinion, it is all good. Thanks OP and follow up posters. Meanwhile, I am going back to studying a bow for my shoes, while attempting to suppress information about reliable ties for bikinis since they may depend upon naughty rather than knotty.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

An Alpine Butterfly? I love that knot but have no idea what use it would have on a boat...?

These the only six we've used on our boat to date (in order of usage):
Everyday knots:

1 clove hitch
2 round turn and two half hitches
3 bowline
4 rolling hitch

Once in a while knots:

5 reef knot
6 figure eight
7 oysterman's stopperknot

Alpine butterfly? More useful for the SAR course than the Learn To Sail course

Oysterman's? Didn't include it in my previous list, but I teach it on the LTS course as a better alternative to the Figure 8. (But when they step on a boat as new crew, they should know both because the stopper knot to use is the skipper's call).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Even though i've been sailing for years and years
I had no formal certifications, so two years ago
I spent a few weeks at a RYA school
tested to Coastal Skipper
A big item was how to cleat a line.
Seems i've been doing it wrong for years
The RYA method is OXO
so you don't need fingers to undo
Therefore
What do you consider the correct method
This is gonna be fun
Cheers
Neil

The RYA OXO is another example of entrenched thinking being wrong today (just like the clove hitch and sheet bend ). The problem is with the first O passing the incoming line beside the first leg.

It's fine if you are tying up to a rock wall or fixed wharf that is well above water level so that lead into the cleat comes from below.

But if the lead into the cleat is downward, as is generally the case these days with modern floating docks, that completed turn around the first leg will frequently get jammed under the incoming line - making it very difficult/impossible to release under load.

Edit: had a touch of Deja Vu, so went looking for the last time this came up.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1914458

According to this link:

https://books.google.com.pg/books?id...0hitch&f=false

the RYA don't teach a full 360° initial turn, so it's no longer OXO.

FWIW, attached is an example of the OXO, showing the problematic first 360° "O"

[StuM]

Just had another thought.

Maybe the RYA OXO should now be called the CXO. That's a far more accurate depiction of the better method.