4 or 5 Knots to know?

[jbinbi]

I have a few friends who come sailing with me but are not really 'sailors'. At this point they can take the helm, pull on lines etc, and relieve me when I need to do something for a bit.

I would like to teach them some knots. I think 4 or 5 at most. I am trying to figure out which ones are essential besides really simple ones that I think they know (square knot and figure 8 stopper). Please give your comments...I can only come up with 2 that have to be known.

1. Bowline. Essential (general purpose, attach a jib sheet to jib, etc.)
2. Clove hitch (tie the fender to the lifeline and not lose the fender overboard)

Need a knot that joins 2 pieces of line very well. Not sure what else..

[skipmac]

#1, how to correctly attach a line to a cleat. Seems simple but I would estimate half the cleats I see in marinas are done incorrectly.

[captainstubbie]

I second that, I would say more than half are done incorrectly on cleats

[skipmac]

And here's a link to a proper cleat hitch.

http://www.animatedknots.com/cleatvert/index.php

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by skipmac

#1, how to correctly attach a line to a cleat. Seems simple but I would estimate half the cleats I see in marinas are done incorrectly.

Ditto. The question is: one full wrap around the body of the cleat or just a half? Many of my really salty friends do a full turn for a "more secure attachment if there's a blow" but I've heard this introduces excess chafe. I split the baby and only do a half turn for regular use, but will do a full turn if I'm away from the boat or there's a storm. What do y'all think?

Another knot is the sheet bend. I don't use it a lot, but if you need it for tying two dissimilar ropes together, it's critical.

As to the bowline, you should get them to tie it around their waists, from behind an object, by itself, etc. This is also one I have to stop and think when I do it in a way that's not in my routine. Better yet, introduce a stressor, such as a timeclock, because pressure makes all knowledge of a knot go straight out of one's head

[Paul Elliott]

Joining two lines: sheet bend. Or zeppelin hitch. A rolling hitch is a great special purpose one, too.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Ditto. The question is: one full wrap around the body of the cleat or just a half? Many of my really salty friends do a full turn for a "more secure attachment if there's a blow" but I've heard this introduces excess chafe. I split the baby and only do a half turn for regular use, but will do a full turn if I'm away from the boat or there's a storm. What do y'all think?

I always do just a half wrap. Never had one come loose and found that a full wrap sometimes jams, especially if the angle of the line from the load to the cleat is too acute.

[jimbunyard]

Half hitch, clove hitch (2 half hitches around a post or line), bowline, sheet bend (bowline made with 2 lines), square knot. Don't confuse them with anything more...

[jbinbi]

lets get this back on track. they do know how to cleat a rope. what other knots?

[jbinbi]

interesting on the sheet bend. i was told the apline butterfly bend was more secure, and i use it instead of the sheet bend. just as easy to tie.

http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebend/index.php

also, halyard hitch, which i think is just a fishermans knot is something people who fish know.

[StuM]

Forget about the sheet bend, clove hitch and a lot of the other traditional knots used in hemp/manila lines. They slip under cyclic loads with modern rope materials.

Here's the list I teach on Learn To Sail and Search & Rescue Crew courses.

The 5 essentials:
1. Bowline.
2. Zeppelin Bend
3. Figure 8
4. Round Turn & 2 Half Hitches
5. Cleat Hitch (no "full turn". It can jam a mooring line under load)

Follow up with desirables once the above are well practiced:

6. Reef knot (with cautions about the limited situations where it is safe/useful)
7. Alpine Butterfly
8. Grapple Hitch
9. Lighterman's/Tugboat hitch.
10. Rolling Hitch.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Half hitch, clove hitch (2 half hitches around a post or line), bowline, sheet bend (bowline made with 2 lines), square knot. Don't confuse them with anything more...

A good start I think + a proper cleat hitch as suggested.

One correction though: a sheet bend is not a bowline. [emoji3] [emoji253]

And +1 on Animated Knots...a very well done resource.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by skipmac

And here's a link to a proper cleat hitch.

http://www.animatedknots.com/cleatvert/index.php

But that is for a halyard. I think dock lines and snubbers get another turn. I've never seen a ship or barge with just one turn around the horns and a hitch.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

One correction though: a sheet bend is not a bowline.

.

No, it's not - but structurally, they are exactly the same. The sheet bend has the same structure as a bowline with the loop cut open.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Guy

But that is for a halyard. I think dock lines and snubbers get another turn. I've never seen a ship or barge with just one turn around the horns and a hitch.

Extra crossover turns - yes. Extra round turns before the crossovers - no.

If you read the notes there:

Number of Turns: In most of Ashley's illustrations he shows astonishingly few turns. However, he was writing when tarred hemp was the rope of choice. Today's ropes may be stronger, thinner, slippery, and more elastic (nylon rope stretches by more than 5% when loaded to 20% of its rated breaking strain). The animation shows only a single crossover before the crossover with the Half Hitch. An extreme load may transmit tension to the Half Hitch and make release awkward. For this reason, additional crossover turns are commonly used.