Advice for a rookie.

[boatman61]

Badly designed compared to what.???
As to instructors, they vary, my instructor for theory in Weymouth was an ass, but then I knew a lot already and had been sailing my own boats for a few years having learnt seamanship and old fashioned navigation in the RN in the '60's.. he hated being questioned/challenged, his way or the highway.
The good thing was 4mths later I took the International Helmsmans ticket solo on my own boat with the examiner giving me commands and firing questions as we went.
Today it counts as Coastal Skipper power and sail up to 24metres/80gt.. so in a way he did me a favour getting up my nose enough for me to walk and go independent.
Your there to get a ticket, bite your tounge or go rogue.

[Auklet]

Instructors/teachers are annoyed by students asking questions not to learn or clarify something, but to test or challenge the instructor’s method or knowledge of subject. Those students often possess a set of little “factoids” of information they test for. I did it myself as a student at times. It may or may not lead to productive learning. It’s very annoying for me to have crew aboard who immediately set about things according to how they have learned something on someone else’s boat or in a course. Unless I have trained the crew (so I know how they do things), I do not much like deviation from my instructions or set outs. On a boat, a skipper wants to know how things will go while working the boat. You don’t know what a beginner will do UNLESS that person is following your instructions and doing it YOUR way. There are many more wrong ways to do something than right ways. So, “a guess” has much higher probability of a bad outcome than following known procedures, etc., instructions. One of the reasons that I am wary of newly trained or otherwise inexperienced skippers.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Mmmm. Is this a joke?

If not, I'm glad you enjoyed the sailing and had some useful experience in different conditions. Sounds like you are happy to go back for more, which is hopeful.

For someone just 2 days into a Competent Crew course, you offer a lot of opinions about quite complex subjects.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Badly designed as compared to what???

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Conditions were cramped? With 5 or 6 or even 7 of you aboard a modern 37-footer, I most sincerely very much doubt that.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in the UK a 37-foot monohull is still usually considered a reasonably big boat, even these days.

Judging by your first impressions, I believe I can see a catamaran in your future.

Originally Posted by Clivevon

You do realise that RYA Yachtmaster Instructors have to be fully qualified and then revalidated every 5 years, don't you?

*This is the one point I diverge with you, Clive. I would say that continued Yachtmaster revalidtion is *inestimably* more demanding than basic Competent Crew.

Originally Posted by Clivevon

I also doubt that he was that ill-informed about modern technologies, designs and capabilities [...he may have passed on occasional opinions...]

YOU thought HE [the Instructor] was uppity...?

Originally Posted by Skylark UK

You absolutely must contact the school prior to completing your CC course to let them know that, based upon your 2-day experience:

1) The boat was poorly designed
2) A 37ft monohull is woefully inadequate
3) The instructor has an “old school” attitude and was ill informed about modern technologies and designs
4) Your navigational awareness was better than his, due to your reference to a phone App.

Based upon your comments and attitude, I fear you may pose a risk to the vessel and others on board.

LOL but also...

Originally Posted by Auklet

This report cracks me up.

Typical - "Whereas I need lessons, I know more about it all than you do.”

If you need to open a cellphone app to know where you are, then you are the one who is lost.

Well done, Clive, Boatie Skylark and Auklet.

You nailed it!

This is a case of the unknown-unknowns, Winglah. Boy do you have a LOT to learn.

LittleWing77
RYA Yachtmaster (1996)

[AKA-None]

As a former racer I took a class on Lake Superior
I was at the helm and we were flying
The instructor simply said look at your classmates below trying to plot our course
They were bouncing around
That was all he had to say to get me to bear off a bit and calm the motion
Some instructors are pretty good at pointing out the obvious without be a$$hole$

[Wihglah]

Originally Posted by Auklet

I traded my flip phone only about 3 yr ago for a smart phone, but there is still no navigation app installed. Occasionally I’m out with folks, other sailors, on my boat who have the phone with app and track us using it. I remember one night helming off Catalina Island, approaching from a different angle than usual that was causing some disorientation, so one crew offered me a look at his iPad (chart plotter app) that he had on, so I did and was grateful. So, it’s useful, we all agree.

But as a teacher or instructor, my students are not permitted to have cell phones or other devices on during lessons w/o permission. The reason is, is that they are typically not paying attention to their instruction. If I wished to teach them how to navigate at sea using cell phones, then that would be in the syllabus. BUT— I cannot imagine a sailing course with a section entitled “cell phone navigation.” Likely electronic/GPS navigation, if that. But this would fall under the heading of navigation/coastal piloting along with the other techniques, such as the use of paper charts in conjunction with ATONS, RADAR, sounding, LOPs, etc.; even DR. That material is usually for the Part II course. It’s a fool’s mission to know and depend on only one form of navigation when at sea. Drop your cell phone overboard or onto the deck into sea water, it beak it; then what?

But if so unhappy with the experience and course format/instruction, perhaps ask for a refund and withdraw. Then find an alternative; perhaps among those mentioned above.

OK - but presumably it's important for a skipper to know where they are right?

We sailed past a particular building on the coast on Day 1, then again on day 2 on the way back, so I knew roughly where we were. The instructor plainly didn't as we were going in the wrong direction. I went below to "make a brew" for everyone and checked. We ended up tacking in a big square to get back on course after the chap on the day skipper course pointed it out.


Also - I don't expect an instructor to be pissed because I casually tied a bowline while the he is instructing another one how...

As for the boat - well, I did expect to not be bedridden with a bad back because the bunks were not long enough.

And I never pretended to know anything about sailing, isn't that the point of learning? For people who don't know to find out? I fail to see why taking someone out for a bad experience is good for the sailing community.

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by Wihglah

OK - but presumably it's important for a skipper to know where they are right?

We sailed past a particular building on the coast on Day 1, then again on day 2 on the way back, so I knew roughly where we were. The instructor plainly didn't as we were going in the wrong direction. I went below to "make a brew" for everyone and checked. We ended up tacking in a big square to get back on course after the chap on the day skipper course pointed it out.


Also - I don't expect an instructor to be pissed because I casually tied a bowline while the he is instructing another one how...

As for the boat - well, I did expect to not be bedridden with a bad back because the bunks were not long enough.

And I never pretended to know anything about sailing, isn't that the point of learning? For people who don't know to find out? I fail to see why taking someone out for a bad experience is good for the sailing community.

If you are tall, say even a little taller than six ft, on a 37-ft sloop, then I would expect you to have trouble fitting comfortably in a standard bunk. One generally big issue in yacht sales is to offer boats with adequate head room for many buyers; which can translate to bunk length as well. Some are not even six ft in length. This would prove “inadequate” I suppose from a customer point of view. But the better approach to “complaint” is to specifically identify what was inadequate about the boat so management can look into modifications of the fleet or in the customer assignments.

I noticed that no one above suggested that you query much about the yacht’s overnight accommodations, etc.