All the things I loved about sailing... people hate?

[Paulihno]

Hi there, long time lurker/first time poster -

I grew up racing Lasers, FJs and J/24s in SF bay. And while it's been over a decade since I did any regular sailing, my love has reignited and I'm committed to getting a boat and circumnavigating.

Reading through the forums, it seems that everyone hates the very things that I liked most about sailing: heeling over and beating upwind. Those were fun sensations to me.. I liked the violence of pounding through the waves, and the danger and speedy sensation of heeling over. I want to experience these sailing sensations again, and that's in large part what's drawing me back to the sea.

Is it that these sensations are fun for short course sailing, but just annoying for extended periods of water sailing">blue water sailing? I'm lost when catamaran folks tout no heeling as a plus, and I always found the feeling of downwind sailing boring.

Anyone else like heeling over and/or sailing close hauled, or am I just a kook.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Paulihno.

... Is it that these sensations are fun for short course sailing, but just annoying for extended periods of blue water sailing?

I think you've put your finger on it.

[Sandero]

Paul... sailing is many different but related things.... sailing always involves a boat. For some it's like a RV on the water taking them to new places... For some it's an intense competitive experience as in racing which invariably involves beating and running... races can be thrilling and why many like them.

Others see sailing not as competitive and racing at all... but more of a challenge to get safely from one place to another... in comfort where they can enjoy the environment and the company on board if there is any.

Others just love messing about on boats... restoring, building, maintaining... a vast series of problem solving and skill challenges.

I don't think and sailors actually HATE any aspect of sailing. They just have preferences for some things and seek to avoid or minimize other things.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Paulihno

Hi there, long time lurker/first time poster -


Anyone else like heeling over and/or sailing close hauled, or am I just a kook.

Welcome to CF and great first question

Truth be told, most sailors love that exhilaration and feeling of opposing power, clawing to windward.

But for those suffering crew on board who just want to get to the next destination.... You can't admit it!

So we honestly try to avoid hard fought passages to windward, but when it happens, that little child in us, hand steers over the crests with glee!

[Paulihno]

Lovely mix of responses. Thanks all.

Now - which boat should I get?

kidding.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Paulihno

I'm lost when catamaran folks tout no heeling as a plus, and I always found the feeling of downwind sailing boring.

You will find there's plenty of sailors out here that squeak if the boat moves.

I am anchored in a beautiful bay with lovely water and people are incredulous: how can you stand the roll? Basically if the boat doesn't move its dead, feels dead, horrible.

Sailing up with I have done a few medium passages between 10 and 13 days. Its ok, the heel is the boat sailing. I don't mind it. I prefer to sail 90-150 degrees off the wind... but others seem to demand it.

[Sea Dreaming]

There might be an age factor too. What was good at 20 is harder on the body at 50+. Since many cruisers are newbies at retirement age it makes sense that more extreme motion is less desireable.

My bf, who is a little older than I am, mentioned that he feels more fear as he ages. He is still willing, he still takes risks, but he feels more fear as he does things. Doing something new takes more mental work to get going. I imagine this is true for many retirement age cruisers, finding ways to address that feeling, like route planning and a cat makes sense.

[robert sailor]

In my racing days upwind sailing was the most exciting because the race was usually won or lost on the upwind leg so I understand your feelings but after days of bashing upwind in large seas it starts to get old pretty quick. I was exactly like you when we started to cross oceans but I no longer like beating upwind offshore, do it because we have to at times. Close reaching and anything behind that is just about perfect. Hope you make your dreams a reality.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

You will find there's plenty of sailors out here that squeak if the boat moves.

I am anchored in a beautiful bay with lovely water and people are incredulous: how can you stand the roll? Basically if the boat doesn't move its dead, feels dead, horrible.

Sailing up with I have done a few medium passages between 10 and 13 days. Its ok, the heel is the boat sailing. I don't mind it. I prefer to sail 90-150 degrees off the wind... but others seem to demand it.

I recall waking up one night after having fallen asleep during a storm. I panicked and shook my boyfriend awake "Jim, Jim! There is something wrong! We aren't moving!"
Ha ha! Nothing wrong, the storm was simply at an end!

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

My bf, who is a little older than I am, mentioned that he feels more fear as he ages.

That's cause it takes so long to heal now....

[gamayun]

Welcome to CF, Paul. Another thing to consider between racing and cruising is that pushing the boat to its limits breaks things. It doesnt really matter what other people hate, knowing what your goals are is what's important. I bought a boat that I felt would be fun to race (in the short term) and solid enough to take cruising in the long term. I love racing -- bigger the wind the better -- but I almost never push the boat when I have guests onboard. I use that time to relax while they sail and have a fun day.

Oh, and if you go offshore and start surfing down the waves, you'll never think downwind sailing is boring!

[redhead]

The oddest thing - I love sailing heeled over on others boats. What a gas.

On mine? Not so much. Go figure.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Paulihno

Hi there, long time lurker/first time poster -

I grew up racing Lasers, FJs and J/24s in SF bay. And while it's been over a decade since I did any regular sailing, my love has reignited and I'm committed to getting a boat and circumnavigating.

Reading through the forums, it seems that everyone hates the very things that I liked most about sailing: heeling over and beating upwind. Those were fun sensations to me.. I liked the violence of pounding through the waves, and the danger and speedy sensation of heeling over. I want to experience these sailing sensations again, and that's in large part what's drawing me back to the sea.

Is it that these sensations are fun for short course sailing, but just annoying for extended periods of blue water sailing? I'm lost when catamaran folks tout no heeling as a plus, and I always found the feeling of downwind sailing boring.

Anyone else like heeling over and/or sailing close hauled, or am I just a kook.

I raced catamarans for 15 years and used to love beating to windward trapped out (double or single trapped depending on which boat I was on)when racing. I also enjoyed sailing really fast downwind under spinnaker, and mainsail while single handing my Nacra F-17.

Most buoy races though last between 45 minutes to 2 hours with distance races anywhere from 3 hours for the shorter ones to 12-20 hours for a 100 mile race wind depending

These times are all really short when talking cruising I have learned.

My cruises are very short also lasting 2-6 days and within 100 miles of where I started.

With cruising you have to include being tired from lack of sleep either from wind, waves, traffic if sailing nonstop, constantly checking the anchor all nite and so on

It's simply a whole different ball game from daytime short distance racing

That said, my favorite point of sail (when rested and during the day) on my old Bristol 27 is still upwind but not in heavy wind.

I like it between maybe 9-14 knots where I can go up and stand by the forestay and enjoy the ride.

14-20 knots is fine if I'm in the mood for that but normally if I'm relaxing its something near 12 or so

[senormechanico]

My boat generates quite a bit of apparent wind, so it's going upwind most of the time.

Flat, though.

[Mike OReilly]

There’s a fun thrill to heeling her hard over and burying the rail, but like any thrill, it’s only fun if it is the exception, not the rule. If you sail hard on the nose all the time, it just becomes ‘normal’ — no thrill in normal.

In addition, small boat racers are quite different than what most people go cruising with; this is the “cruisers” forum after all. Sure, you can race your cruising boat, but that’s not the intended use.

Finally, most keel boats are most efficient if sailed at a small to modest heel angles. Hard over, “burying the rail,” just means you moving inefficiently and probably slower than you could. You’re making more leeway so are sliding through the water instead of moving forward, you’ve probably got too much sail up so are over-taxing the rigging, and it becomes tiring to live on a floating house that is heavily angled, so you are unnecessarily taxing the crew.

As a cruiser, if I want the thrill of wet boat racing then I’d get a hard dingy with a sail rig. Or stay put and join a racing club.