Always use a snubber or your boat could end up like...

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You can see the band brake on this image of the Maxwell VWC 3500.
It brakes the gypsy and I believe does not brake the capstan.

Brilliant. The Maxwell and the Lofrans posted by Dockhead restore my faith. I'd hope they have a lining and are not just metal-on-metal.

Originally Posted by cyan

One day, as I was habitually closing seacocks before a passage, my experienced friend told me he never does that and never had a problem. I thought well, sure, but I'm trusting just a solid valve and he's trusting flexible hose and clamps and... it only takes a couple of minutes.

The only seacock I have that would not be used on passage is raw water washdown, and we've actually used that, so I don't close any. I do however touch every one, cycle the valve, check the hose clamps, and inspect the hose. I do this regularly without respect to passagemaking - what difference sinking at sea or the dock?

Originally Posted by Simi 60

How is a brake any different to a clutch?
If I cranked down hard on the clutch I reckon it'd never slip but I have never felt the need.

Others have noted the difference between a brake and a clutch and I won't belabor that point. I'll add that for direct drive or a gear train without a worm gear the motor will simply spin backwards and not provide any braking at all. I have seen such windlasses in the recreational market. Like worm gears, hydraulic motors will lock and not run backwards.

[billdomb]

Originally Posted by dreuge

Here is a nice video that should convince anyone to use snubbers and not rely on a windlass to hold the chain. .

Yep, blame someone else for bad seamanship.
If you haven't watched yet, START AT 5 MINUTES 30-ish

[damo_ushuaia]

I watched most of this video and the saddest part was watching the way they dragged the boat over the rocks one by one, leaving half of it behind. If that’s not a total loss, I will be surprised! Not going to comment on techniques used to anchor, that has been covered already. In this day of click bait on YT vlogs and cruisers asking them to donate to patreon accounts, this video actually contained some reasonable content. Still sad any day someone loses their home.

[tgradyv7m]

Dang you guys. You are being pretty righteous. It was a video of what happened that probably wouldn't have happen if he had a snubber. You reading to much into the video. As for the length, most video players have a fast button. Personally, I found it as a wake up call. I don't want to find my boat like that, ever. In fact I will be rigging bridle.

[captainblue]

I made a snubber out of 5 x 5ft loops of 1/2" bungy. I use it all the time, and I know it's saved my boat on more than a few occasions!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by billdomb

Yep, blame someone else for bad seamanship.
If you haven't watched yet, START AT 5 MINUTES 30-ish

We covered this in the first page. *grin* Summary: Sailing Dog didn't know what they were doing and Zephyr doesn't know what they are talking about.



In my opinion the salvors did a decent job. Absent a CH-53E they weren't coming off those rocks without damage.

[Greg Mason]

I did not watch the video. I do have a chain lock ahead of my windlass. 2 weeks ago, we endured a gale force wind coming into the anchorage, and from a direction that it could get fetch. The fifteen ton power boat ahead of my started dragging. Not knowing if his anchor would cross mine, we fended off, fired up and left. There were 3' waves at that point, and no one was going safely forward. Used the remote to bring in the chain and anchor and got our of there. Would not have wanted a snubber and line in the mix. With the chain coming in, the chain lock releases automatically, so not a problem. The chain lock is not on the bowsprit. Always used a snubber when we were offshore, mostly to stop the sound of coral or rock on the chain, but my windlass was manual, so no chance of self release at any point.

[pdstokes]

Ouch, but no need to listen to all the excuses.
I’m a circumnavigator and a long term cruiser currently in the Med on a 50ft yacht.
I can categorically say all cruisers I know use snubbers of various variety. This is not only good practice, it’s common sense. In addition, and like me, many back this up with a Dyneema loop with clip, fastened to the anchor chain and passed over the windlass or front cleat.
I do see many not using snubbers, but almost entirely from the chartering community, which sadly in my experience have very little understanding of boat safety and anchoring technique. But that is for another subject I guess.

[NormanS]

Most people know enough to take the load off the gypsy when anchored, but in no way does it have to be a snubber. I very rarely use a snubber, but I ALWAYS use a chain stopper, which sits on the deck, forward of the windlass. It has the advantage that as soon as chain is pulled in by the windlass, it lifts out of the stopper, with no faffing about with chain hooks, bridles, or rolling hitches.

[Piratenorm]

For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe, the horse was lost...
For the want of a snubber, something so easily rigged as to be nothing more than a few extra moments, the boat was lost.
I got into the habit just because the chain dragging back and forth across the anchor roller kept me awake at night. Then I realized how much stronger everything was, incorporating the two bow cleats and the Sampson post I made with a sturdy snubber and a few extra moments anchoring her properly and I'd be able to sleep soundly all night long.
Until the yahoos started showing up and dropping their 15 lbs S.S. anchor on 6 feet of chain and 50 feet of rope to hold their 25000 lbs million dollar cruisers, that is.

[dreuge]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... what bugs me about this kind of post is that it seems to be aimed more at generating views of their video, with no real interest in contributing to this community. Sure, use CF to promote your other works, but try and be a little subtle about it — at least pretend to contribute here.

Mike, I'm a bit shocked that you thought my posting was a ploy at increasing the number of video views. Experience is earned, and we all make and learn from mistakes. But there is value in learning about the mistakes of others, especially when the mistakes are very costly.

Now I may not be an avid contributor on CF, but just because one reads more posts than writes, does not make them a pretender. When I had a smaller race/cruiser I was very active on SailNet, since refitting my Landfall 38, I have learned a lot from CF and contributed some back. I do spend time writing up my projects on blogspot and contributing to the CnC mailing list. The later is a wonderful community with fewer folks making incorrect ASSumptions.

[paul2884]

I watched some of the video didn’t enjoy it much so skipped lots of it..
But what has this to do with snubbers? We have 40m of chain the end is secured to the boat with a length of dynema (can be cut but won’t snap too easily) if it all runs out we have 40m of all chain anchor warp - where is the problem with that? We use a snubber to take the strain off the windlass and make it quieter as the chain can be a bit noisy, with the catenary effect on most anchorages it doesn’t snub anyway. with all the other boats in the anchorage I was very surprised it ended up on the rocks someone must have seen it dragging/drifting people cant be very friendly over there!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by dreuge

I'm a bit shocked that you thought my posting was a ploy at increasing the number of video views.

Shocked are you? That yet another video from yet another batch of ill-prepared, ill-informed people who jumped in a boat and happen to put cleavage front and center and MAKE THE SAME D@M^ MISTAKES that others have made before irritates a number of experienced people?

Now if someone makes a new and creative mistake I want to know about it. If someone steps up and said they made a mistake they should have known better about and what they learned about it that is fine also. But for someone to blame commercial traffic with 3' wakes (recognizing that most recreational boaters grossly over estimate wave height) led to the loss of a boat through no fault of their own is simply egregious.

What disturbs ME most is that this stuff gets posted on YouTube and other new people think it is credible. Those people may well be anchored upwind of me and that is frightening.

Salty Dog did not know what he was doing, and Zephyr doesn't know what they are talking about.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dreuge

Mike, I'm a bit shocked that you thought my posting was a ploy at increasing the number of video views. Experience is earned, and we all make and learn from mistakes. But there is value in learning about the mistakes of others, especially when the mistakes are very costly. …

I said nothing about you being a “pretender”, or suggested anything about your experience level. So I guess I’m not the only one making ASSumptions…

All you did with your initial post was say something vague like “this should convince anyone to use snubbers,” without tells us WHAT was it about the video that should convince us of anything. In other words, you’re demanding that people watch this video first.

I accept when you say your intention was not simply to drive views, although this is an increasing (and annoying) tactic used by a few. Regardless, this is a discussion forum. So, discuss the subject you’ve raised. Tell us what about the video makes your point. I don’t mind if you use the vid as support, but don’t make it a precondition of partaking in the discussion.

As it turns out, a useful and interesting discussion did take place, so good on you .

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Belezar

I have never been on a charter in the Caribbean when they didn’t instruct you to use a snubber, even there wasn’t one on board. Sometimes that’s the only thing I was told.

Here here. For every charter I have been on and US sailing course I have taken, no pulling the boat to the anchor and no leaving the anchor on the windlass. They were 100% unambiguous.
Right up there with no peeing into the wind if you ask me...