Anchoring nightmare this week

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Chotu

You really should have a lot more chain than that if you want reliable anchoring

In OP's defense, this is an exceptionally common rode on the Chesapeake. We have nothing but mud (maybe a bit of sand on a good day) and generally shallow water (I am anchored right now in 11 feet). And anchoring in measurable current is quite rare. Many well-found boats have 20 feet of chain and maybe 150 feet of rope. It really is unusual to find (locally sailed) boats with a lot of chain. While my current boat is all chain, my last boat had 5' of chain and 180 feet of rope, and it was ample.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Rohan

400' of chain on a 42' boat? Wouldn't that be like 400 pounds?? (182kg). Can your windlass even handle that? Could you manually handle it? Also, why do you need such a long chain? Do you regularly anchor in 60 ft of water?

You are not pulling up 400ft of chain all at once..if you anchor let's say in 25ft you are only pulling up the weight of about 25ft of chain and some drag or so.
Generally one motors toward the drop point which takes the weight off dragging in the chain using the winch.

[chef2sail]

Originally Posted by Rohan

This week, I was anchored overnight on the Potomac, in a familiar spot I have anchored out dozens of times before. I woke up in middle of the night, was freaking out that I was a lot closer to shore than I intended. Wind was blowing 13 kts. Thinking my anchor probably slipped or something, I got up to move to a safer spot.

Started the engine on idle, tried to lift the anchor, and it wouldn't retract at all. The rode was hugging the side of the boat and going toward the back. That part isn't unusual - about every 12 hours the current on the river flips the other direction and so I usually flip around sometime during the night, and sometimes the current is pulling me one way, and the wind is pushing me the other way. So the rode can get twisted around. But what was unusual is the windlass couldn't pull it in. Even if it wrapped around my keel or something I can usually slowly pull it up and sort it out. But this time - nothing. I wasn't sure what was going on, thought maybe my motor was failing or something. Tried pulling it by hand with no luck.

So next step was a mistake - I tried using the engine to back away from shore and quickly the engine seized and stalled. It turned out the anchor chain had tightly wrapped around the propeller. But I didn't know that, I thought my transmission failed or something. I could restart the engine and run it in neutral, but putting it in gear immediately stalled it.

This situation really terrified me - I had no control at all. No propulsion, so I can't move and no anchor, so I can't stay. So I was pushed toward shore, grounded on the mud, and waited a nerve wracking hour for the towboat to arrive while I'm tilted and being buffeted by the waves. Thank heaven the Potomac is mostly soft mud. Sails were not really an option, I'm in the dark by myself, heavy wind, bow was pointing toward shore, and I thought that my anchor was still in the mud (turns out it was actually twisted and destroyed).

Long story short, later finally got the anchor chain off the propeller with the help of a buddy in dive gear - but now my prop is damaged, and engine vibrates severely. So this is going to be a major hassle to fix.

So how can I prevent this from happening in the future?? Obviously I shouldn't have put the engine in gear. But what else should I have done in this situation to sort it out? Or what could I have done to prevent it?


For reference, I had a Fortress fx-16 danforth type anchor, 15' of chain connected to 3/4" rode, which was original equipment (now destroyed and looking for replacement). Since it was windy that night I gave it a fair bit more than 7:1 ratio. Maybe I put out too much rode? I don't like the idea of a second anchor, because I'm worried about the two getting intertwined as the boat flips around during the night.

First glad you are safe.

My sailing area is the Chesapeake. 35 years from Solomons to the Canal. The last 5 in the southern Chessie . We keep our Haleakula in Mobjack Bay

Let me address a number of issue as to cause and prevention

First. It sound like you anchored in the Potomac proper which is never a good idea. 3 knots tidal current at least. Long fetches. Wind opposing current for 6 hour stretches meaning tougher than normal conditions.

Second : anchor is very suspect. You should buy a new gen Rocna, Manson or Mantus . Look around you at other boats, that should clue you in

Third : where was your emergency anchor? A good sailor would have thrown it down we we dragged and couldnt deal with the fouled anchor rode. It would have at the very least bought you some time. May have prevented your grounding.

Fourth as discussed you need more chain on your rode. I suggest minimum 30 ft. I prefer a combo as the nylon is very forgiving and stretched

Fifth: Kellet as mentioned . We deploy ours in any tidal anchoring situation. Prevents anchor wrap. We also use a 10 lb mushroom on an oversized shackle let down the nylon anchor rode to a position of at least 6 ft great depth than the keel.

Sixth: anchoring technique and retrieval is amateur. You don’t use windlass to pull boat to the anchor .
Why would you anchor in an area with large fetch? Lots of river debris?

Seventh. The Potomac is notorious for its own weather and roughness. I’ve anchored on many of the creeks and tributaries. Maybe 500 times at least. There are many protected anchorages with little current. Where EXACTLEY did you anchor.

You were fortunate though had an expensive lesson. I know this may seem harsh but take it as a way to prevent what just occurred from happening again. We all learned sometime. Maybe finding a more experienced sailor to pick their brain might help

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by chef2sail

First glad you are safe.

My sailing area is the Chesapeake. 35 years from Solomons to the Canal. The last 5 in the southern Chessie . We keep our Haleakula in Mobjack Bay

Let me address a number of issue as to cause and prevention

First. It sound like you anchored in the Potomac proper which is never a good idea. 3 knots tidal current at least. Long fetches. Wind opposing current for 6 hour stretches meaning tougher than normal conditions.

Second : anchor is very suspect. You should buy a new gen Rocna, Manson or Mantus . Look around you at other boats, that should clue you in

Third : where was your emergency anchor? A good sailor would have thrown it down we we dragged and couldnt deal with the fouled anchor rode. It would have at the very least bought you some time. May have prevented your grounding.

Fourth as discussed you need more chain on your rode. I suggest minimum 30 ft. I prefer a combo as the nylon is very forgiving and stretched

Fifth: Kellet as mentioned . We deploy ours in any tidal anchoring situation. Prevents anchor wrap. We also use a 10 lb mushroom on an oversized shackle let down the nylon anchor rode to a position of at least 6 ft great depth than the keel.

Sixth: anchoring technique and retrieval is amateur. You don’t use windlass to pull boat to the anchor .
Why would you anchor in an area with large fetch? Lots of river debris?

Seventh. The Potomac is notorious for its own weather and roughness. I’ve anchored on many of the creeks and tributaries. Maybe 500 times at least. There are many protected anchorages with little current. Where EXACTLEY did you anchor.

You were fortunate though had an expensive lesson. I know this may seem harsh but take it as a way to prevent what just occurred from happening again. We all learned sometime. Maybe finding a more experienced sailor to pick their brain might help

Originally Posted by chef2sail

Sixth: anchoring technique and retrieval is amateur. You don’t use windlass to pull boat to the anchor

So what is the "pro" way for a single handing person at night in heavy winds to recover an anchor?

It's not a situation I've been in, as my wife is nearly always with me (and doing anchor duty [emoji16]). On my last boat, a Sabre 34, I had no windlass and manually pulling the boat forward in heavy air was hard -- on OP's bigger boat....

You've explained why his technique is amateur, but I would love to hear how it SHOULD be done, should I find myself alone in heavy air and needing to recover the anchor.

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

So what is the "pro" way for a single handing person at night in heavy winds to recover an anchor?

It's not a situation I've been in, as my wife is nearly always with me (and doing anchor duty [emoji16]). On my last boat, a Sabre 34, I had no windlass and manually pulling the boat forward in heavy air was hard -- on OP's bigger boat....

You've explained why his technique is amateur, but I would love to hear how it SHOULD be done, should I find myself alone in heavy air and needing to recover the anchor.

I believe what he’s saying is you motor up to the anchor while using the windlass to retrieve the rode, therefore not putting a big load on the windlass. Common practice.

[chef2sail]

Originally Posted by smj

I believe what he’s saying is you motor up to the anchor while using the windlass to retrieve the rode, therefore not putting a big load on the windlass. Common practice.

Exactly

[chef2sail]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

So what is the "pro" way for a single handing person at night in heavy winds to recover an anchor?

It's not a situation I've been in, as my wife is nearly always with me (and doing anchor duty [emoji16]). On my last boat, a Sabre 34, I had no windlass and manually pulling the boat forward in heavy air was hard -- on OP's bigger boat....

You've explained why his technique is amateur, but I would love to hear how it SHOULD be done, should I find myself alone in heavy air and needing to recover the anchor.

No need for attitude

My windlass BTW is a manual one.
Even single handed I motor up to the anchor and repeat if I have to.

I single hand a lot. Less as I get older. We have a 35 C&C similar boat to the Sabre.

I think safety first. In this situation it appears he put himself in danger or a compromising position by his mere choice of where he anchored . He is doing this in one of the most areas of difficult weather conditions on the Chesapeake.

I’m no pro at all so don’t get an attitude about my criticisms. I do have some experience . Many Chessie sailors never anchor in areas of current. Go north say to the LI Sound where current a 8 foot tide changes are the norm. You learn quickly how to prepare for it

A 36 Hunter is a well founded boat and will keep you safe but only as safe as the operator allows it to.

IMO your actions showed a lack of understanding of the risk you put yourself in for no reason and a lack of respect of the difficulty it is to sail by yourself. You are lucky you only suffered minor damages and aren’t reporting on a sinking or salvage of your vessel.

[Kettlewell]

So what is the "pro" way for a single handing person at night in heavy winds to recover an anchor?

It's not a situation I've been in, as my wife is nearly always with me (and doing anchor duty ). On my last boat, a Sabre 34, I had no windlass and manually pulling the boat forward in heavy air was hard -- on OP's bigger boat....

IMHO any cruising boat over about 30-32 feet should have at least a manual windlass. I use a manual ABI windlass on my heavy 38-foot cruising sailboat, and it is perfectly possible to slowly pull the boat over the anchor in winds up to and beyond 30 knots. It is quite powerful, but slow. Without a windlass it is usually done by having someone slowly motor up on the anchor while the person on the bow pulls in the line and chain. Singlehanding you might want to just click the boat into gear and try to keep pulling as hard as you can. Hopefully the tiny bit of throttle will ease the strain and your pulling will keep the boat headed into the wind towards the anchor.

But, and this is a serious but, in the OP's situation, apparently dragging towards shore and with him being unsure of what is going on I would usually first try to get the first anchor to hold by letting out more scope, and/or by dropping a second anchor. I almost always have a dinghy in the water overnight and would typically take a second anchor out in the dinghy and drop it. There are no definitive answers that apply to all situations. One iron clad rule is to never put the engine in gear if the anchor line or chain is not leading forward away from the boat. The second anchor is your safety valve in that situation. Take it out in the dinghy and get it set before fiddling with the first anchor and its problems.

The OP should not feel shame for this situation. We have all been there, done that, and suffered various problems if we have gone anywhere. Ask any commercial fisherman for their snafu stories!

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by smj

I believe what he’s saying is you motor up to the anchor while using the windlass to retrieve the rode, therefore not putting a big load on the windlass. Common practice.

Indeed. But more than a little hard solo at night. That was my question -- how do you motor ahead on the anchor, without overrunning it, while simultaneously standing on the bow running the windlass?

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Indeed. But more than a little hard solo at night. That was my question -- how do you motor ahead on the anchor, without overrunning it, while simultaneously standing on the bow running the windlass?

We have a windlass control at the helm which helps, but no doubt if it’s dark and blowing it isn’t easy.

[JPA Cate]

I wouldn't start the engine with a keel wrap. Singlehanded at oh dark thirty, I would put on my foulies, check my head lamp, put on my pfd, put on the head lamp in case it will help, and carefully load the spare anchor, chain, and ~200 ft 1/2" rope rode into the dinghy, so that it could pay out without fouling. Note, mark it at the halfway mark with a zip tie or a piece of string, you want to be able to feel it and see it.

(Personally, although we have an inflatable, I think a timber rowing dinghy is a better tool, for this job.) Row up to windward (if you have to do it with an inflatable be sure to make the three groups-- anchor, chain, line--cannot get blown about. Turn off the engine and drop the anchor 75 feet or so ahead of the mother boat. Row the dinghy back or let it blow back to the mother boat, slowly paying out the line. Put the bitter end of the anchor line onto a bow cleat, and take the dinghy back and secure it on a short painter.

Go fwd, and start taking up on the anchor line. Pull it tight, sweating it in till the bow comes around. If you have enough line lead the tail back to a primary. You may need a couple of snatch blocks to get it to lead well. Pulling on the rope rode should get you to lie bows in to the wind. Now, go have a cuppa. Then, sweat some more line in, the boat may pull herself off during this process. Sweat it in till she floats freely. Since you have moved the boat to windward, the line should drop off the keel.*

Ease out the original snubber till the line falls off the keel. (This may take several trips: don't make large changes fast, being slow keeps you in control of the situation.) Once the keel is free, I would lie to both anchors till it is light, then use the big boat to raise both. You want to bag the second anchor's rode as you bring it in, side by side, so to speak, keeping everything tidy and shipshape. Pull up the second anchor and secure it on deck. Now, lying to main anchor, and with nothing fouled (remember to check for lines overboard, and then, when all is clear and secured, up anchor and exit the anchorage.)

You can do it if you let the physics work for you, and you do need to stay calm and work things out, and question your reasoning. We always want to just fix it right now, but taking time and being calm about it will get you there safest, and possibly fastest.




* If the keel stays wrapped, do not plan to move the boat till after sunrise, by 10 AM local, you should have good visibility into the water. You may decide to cut some anchor line, but first to buoy it. With luck, you should be able to get most of it back.


**********



Don't try to swim out an anchor without flotation for it. And consider buoying it, [put the boat's name on all your fenders, they make good buoys) so you can tell where the anchor is.

Don't let the big boat thump on you.

Ann

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rohan

This week, I was anchored overnight on the Potomac, in a familiar spot I have anchored out dozens of times before. I woke up in middle of the night, was freaking out that I was a lot closer to shore than I intended. Wind was blowing 13 kts. Thinking my anchor probably slipped or something, I got up to move to a safer spot.

Started the engine on idle, tried to lift the anchor, and it wouldn't retract at all. The rode was hugging the side of the boat and going toward the back. That part isn't unusual - about every 12 hours the current on the river flips the other direction and so I usually flip around sometime during the night, and sometimes the current is pulling me one way, and the wind is pushing me the other way. So the rode can get twisted around. But what was unusual is the windlass couldn't pull it in. Even if it wrapped around my keel or something I can usually slowly pull it up and sort it out. But this time - nothing. I wasn't sure what was going on, thought maybe my motor was failing or something. Tried pulling it by hand with no luck.

So next step was a mistake - I tried using the engine to back away from shore and quickly the engine seized and stalled. It turned out the anchor chain had tightly wrapped around the propeller. But I didn't know that, I thought my transmission failed or something. I could restart the engine and run it in neutral, but putting it in gear immediately stalled it.

This situation really terrified me - I had no control at all. No propulsion, so I can't move and no anchor, so I can't stay. So I was pushed toward shore, grounded on the mud, and waited a nerve wracking hour for the towboat to arrive while I'm tilted and being buffeted by the waves. Thank heaven the Potomac is mostly soft mud. Sails were not really an option, I'm in the dark by myself, heavy wind, bow was pointing toward shore, and I thought that my anchor was still in the mud (turns out it was actually twisted and destroyed).

Long story short, later finally got the anchor chain off the propeller with the help of a buddy in dive gear - but now my prop is damaged, and engine vibrates severely. So this is going to be a major hassle to fix.

So how can I prevent this from happening in the future?? Obviously I shouldn't have put the engine in gear. But what else should I have done in this situation to sort it out? Or what could I have done to prevent it?


For reference, I had a Fortress fx-16 danforth type anchor, 15' of chain connected to 3/4" rode, which was original equipment (now destroyed and looking for replacement). Since it was windy that night I gave it a fair bit more than 7:1 ratio. Maybe I put out too much rode? I don't like the idea of a second anchor, because I'm worried about the two getting intertwined as the boat flips around during the night.

That was an anchoring nightmare. You were very fortunate to land on a mud shore. I am a believer in Kellets. However, the boats that I had at the time were all chain. You can use a kellet with a rode but it is a bit more complicated. Google it and you will see some of the techniques. Depending where you attach the kellet it will keep your rode submerged and prevent tangling. A better method is the time-tested Bahamian two anchor technique. The first time you try to set two anchors, it will seem too complicated. But try it a few times and you find it is not difficult. It will definitely keep you anchored with tidal reverses and wind shifts.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

This is why I don't anchor with rode, I have seen too many problems like this, the boat swings around too easily, and as you discovered the rode can wind up in your prop.



Right now I have 340' of 5/16" chain on my boat, once I swap to lithium batteries and get some of the weight out from under my V-berth, I am going to stuff 400' of chain in her as she is due for replacement.

Chain doesn’t go bad, but eventually the zinc disappears on the section that’s in the water repeatedly. I have chain that was on our boat when we bought her 27 years ago. I have it re-galvanized every 10 years or so. Find a galvanizing service with a centrifuge for chain. It’s a whole lot cheaper than buying new chain. Re-dipped periodically, it will last indefinitely.

[thinwater]

All chain and a modern anchor is the best answer.


With a combination rope/chain rode, a kellet will keep the rope away from the keel and rudder. It can be a small anchor, as others have pointed out, or a coil of chain, which has the advantage of coming over the roller smoothly.


You do not need a tender to set a second anchor. If you want to set the anchor down tide for a shift, just ease the boat back to twice the intended scope, lower the anchor over the stern rail, and shorten up. Set the second anchor. Then either secure to a stern cleat if this is a narrow waterway and a beam wind is not expected. If you prefer to have the anchors in V and have some swing, it is best if the second rode is terminated to the main rode ~ 10 feet from the roller and only one rode comes aboard. In this way they will not twist together. Also, let out some slack to form the V.


You can also use the motor to maneuver the boat to set a second anchor. Ease out a lot of rode and very long scope (makes it easier) and mind where the rode is. Then shorten up.


A kellet and a more modern anchor is probably the simplest answer for the OP. Keep the Fortress as a secondary anchor and as a kedge; it is perfect for those tasks in the Chesapeake area.

[Kettlewell]

So how can I prevent this from happening in the future?? Obviously I shouldn't have put the engine in gear. But what else should I have done in this situation to sort it out? Or what could I have done to prevent it?

Part of the question was what to do if you wake up with the anchor already caught underneath the boat, and that's where a dinghy and a second anchor you can take out in the dinghy come in very, very handy. I've used this technique when the main anchor is fouled on something on the bottom too. First get the boat safely anchored and under control so you can sort out why the main anchor rode is tangled, and so you don't become adrift once you untangle everything.