Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by double u

...boats are cheaper & more plentiful than ever. that they "set off" after saving only $10.090 shows a certain attitude...
the regulations do not make it "unaffordable" - the cruising life is more affordable than it was in the eighties! - they are just a major annoyance (& I for one take strong exception to a desksailor/penpusher in a ministery telling me what safety equipment I have to take along!)

Its a delicate situation. One mans fool is another mans hero. They didn't steal anything or hurt anybody, they bought the boat and fixed it the best they knew how. They didn't have insurance (not smart) but they were not breaking any laws. They had no debt when they left the dock, they owned their possessions. If they had made a great adventure would we be congratulating them? The fact that people seem to be getting angry because so many people were willing to help them is perplexing. I mean whats the real issue here, are some people angry because they perceive somebody is getting a free ride? Young kids today will never have the opportunities that I had in the eighties. I could get a job anywhere, life and work were burgeoning. Now, record homelessness, unemployment, and low wages. It is much more unaffordable to young people now.
As far as regulation goes, too many=bad, too little=bad. Life is Balance.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by double u

...there seems to be one common denominator though:
"it is ALWAYS sombody elses fault!"

True, true. But can you blame kids who were programmed to be that way by parents, schools ,media, friends and churches. Isn't our generation at fault for that? I think we let this happen.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

-You should read this thread from the beginning so you know what is meant by opportunity stolen. A lifetime of service work is not opportunity.
-"Leave it to Beaver" I guess that only makes sense to you.
-I told one person to calm down, not people. Referring to the young people as stupid, ilk, and lazy is unbecoming. Is English a second language for you?

I think you may need to re-read it.

Someone suggested these kids were on the forum...it's not you is it?

[double u]

"Young kids today will never have the opportunities that I had in the eighties"
you don't mean that seriously, do you!
anything you might need to know about cruising, from repair/refit/equipment/navigational & seaman-skills is at your fingertips! you can look at your anchorages in advance on Google earth, copy charts on the i-net, have GPS practically for free, ...
the customs & importation nightmare I had in the seventies with boatequipment bought in the UK ("Thomas Foulkes"...) because I wanted the VAT back when exporting my self-built boat - an opportunity they won't have...
the time & effort it took to compare prices & order stuff, to get information while building, the tapping into other builders experiences - opportunities they won't have...
& as to "programmed": we are all "programmed", but for the purpose of living together in complex societies we have to act as if there were a "free will"

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think you may need to re-read it.

Someone suggested these kids were on the forum...it's not you is it?

Yes you caught me! I am the masked marauder, the man on the grassy knoll. "And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids", Scooby Doo. After all Florida is right next door to Alaska doncha know.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by double u

"Young kids today will never have the opportunities that I had in the eighties"
you don't mean that seriously, do you!
anything you might need to know about cruising, from repair/refit/equipment/navigational & seaman-skills is at your fingertips! you can look at your anchorages in advance on Google earth, copy charts on the i-net, have GPS practically for free, ...
the customs & importation nightmare I had in the seventies with boatequipment bought in the UK ("Thomas Foulkes"...) because I wanted the VAT back when exporting my self-built boat - an opportunity they won't have...
the time & effort it took to compare prices & order stuff, to get information while building, the tapping into other builders experiences - opportunities they won't have...
& as to "programmed": we are all "programmed", but for the purpose of living together in complex societies we have to act as if there were a "free will"

My position was aimed at money making opportunities not technological info gathering. My experience is only US based not UK based. I stand by statement that the eighties offered more to my generation than 2018 offers to this generation. We had library's back in 1980 that contained all the info in things called books and magazines. We used phones to call and talk to actual people.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by cyan

Fair enough. They made some dumb mistakes. Immediate need. A couple bucks wouldn't hurt. Enabling?
Homeless drug users are down on their luck, so to speak. Dumb mistakes. They seem to collect a couple blocks from my office. I offer some food. Immediate need. Enabling?

Actually the drug users are an excellent comparison. You don't just hand them a $100 bill and think your are doing them a favor.
Reality is if you participate in the gobegme site, you just bought them the equivalent of the next hit and they are likely to learn little from the experience.

If you want to actually help them, you need to target your help to what really helps. I used to work downtown Detroit and would take a couple pieces of fruit on the walk to work and when the drugies asked for a handout that is what they would get. Then a couple times a year, I would donate to the Capuchin kitchen.

Which ones did this?
I have never seen this in the channels I watch.
("buy us a beer" seems like a fair, small exchange for my enjoyment. Asking for a beer? not really a charity. No stop to the fun, no matter my donation of $5 or not)

Hard to put a list together as I quickly lose interest in blogs where they regularly beg for money, so I don't have them bookmarked for easy recall. But yeah, you do come across a fair number.

The other issue with the youtube thing is it's a gray area. It's one thing if they put out a lot of great info and there is one little place down at the bottom of the page where it's available if you look for it. That's not too bad. Others it's front and center on the main page and they make lots of comments about buying them a beer or an oil change or etc...virtually every post. That's where I usually vote with my feet and go elsewhere.

In the old days, you had itinerants who traveled town to town with fake sob stories and people would give them money, so I don't expect this will go away any time soon.

[double u]

...just take their smartphones (what a word! "smart" - a phone!!!)= away & give them an eighties-book & a landline-phone & see what they'll make of the "opportunities".
I am very happy & grateful that we could go rtw twice without any electronic navigation devices (well nearly: we had a seafarer MK3 sounder...)(gps only on our 3rd rtw) & I could find all those dream-islands & reefs with my sextant, a watch & the tables (in all modesty, I was quite good at it then...)
BUT: just do a poll here who would be happy to exchange his GPS for the "navigation-opportunities" of the eighties...

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by double u

...just take their smartphones (what a word! "smart" - a phone!!!)= away & give them an eighties-book & a landline-phone & see what they'll make of the "opportunities".
I am very happy & grateful that we could go rtw twice without any electronic navigation devices (well nearly: we had a seafarer MK3 sounder...)(gps only on our 3rd rtw) & I could find all those dream-islands & reefs with my sextant, a watch & the tables (in all modesty, I was quite good at it then...)
BUT: just do a poll here who would be happy to exchange his GPS for the "navigation-opportunities" of the eighties...

Again, my position was clearly based on monetary/job advancement opportunities, not technology. Please stay on course, use the sextant if you have to.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

My position was aimed at money making opportunities not technological info gathering. My experience is only US based not UK based. I stand by statement that the eighties offered more to my generation than 2018 offers to this generation. We had library's back in 1980 that contained all the info in things called books and magazines. We used phones to call and talk to actual people.

Those who put in the same effort, have far more opportunity today.

I do see a lot of kids choosing no job over starting low and working their way up the ladder. Kind of reminds me of someone we've been talking about recently.

[double u]

I'm convinced that the moneymaking opportunities for smart and/or diligent/hard working youngsters are at least as good today as in "my time". at the "bottom end" of the "market" there probably is more competiton (at least hereabouts)

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by double u

I'm convinced that the moneymaking opportunities for smart and/or diligent/hard working youngsters are at least as good today as in "my time". at the "bottom end" of the "market" there probably is more competiton (at least hereabouts)

In the US kids leave college with enormous debt loads to enter a highly competitive work force that offers non-livable wages. Outsourcing and global competition has exacerbated that fact. Increased home prices and money loosing its value means that 1. they will never be able to afford a home like their parents and 2. seniors will work longer in their field to increase their retirement fund which 3. increases the downward pressure on young people.
This is just a small slice of the problems that young people face. Their difficulties are enormous. If you cant see this by doing your own research, then nothing I say on this forum will convince you.

[danielamartindm]

Some people really have an axe to grind with the world, and it shows in the sometimes-nasty replies to a thread like this one. Some people who worked a lifetime to be able to do cruising their way in old age seem to be especially upset at the youth of this couple, doing it in their prime on their terms, regardless of finances. Some would like to see this couple financially punished to the max, and are resentful that others might take pity on them or try to help them financially. How petty can we be? I see a bit of myself when I was young in this couple, and I salute their courage and spirit. If their voyage had ended positively, we'd all be congratulating them, so why completely discount their pluck by calling it stupidity? The sea can be cruel, and one doesn't always learn in controlled, measured steps, like the chapters of a book.

[alaskaflyfish]

Don't even get me started on what the impact of robotics will do to the blue collar workforce. Some people will just be obsolete. Young people face these challenges while I was able to retire at 44 because of the job opportunities I had in the eighties. Good night.

[double u]

I am very upset, but, if you read my posts, you will see that "Some people who worked a lifetime to be able to do cruising their way in old age seem to be especially upset " does not apply to me at all! I set out on our 1st rtw with 25 & returned with 32, having made a dream (then it was, particularly for Austrians, much more of a "distant dream" than today) come true through diligence, caution, circumspection, hard work, saving & frugal, spartan living.
begging for handouts is despicable!