Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[Kita]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Kita, your chances of finding it will be maximized if you go at low water. If that picture of 4 or 5 submerged bits is what was left of Lagniappe, it will be hard to spot..... Good luck with it, and hope you get a GPS fix on it, if you find it.

Ann

That’s a good idea, I didn't think about GPS, I have a hand held I can use in the dink...the sand bar is not that big really, I will try to get some numbers & post them Monday night. ...thanks!

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Kita

I will take my dingy back out there day after tomorrow, that will be Monday & look again. ..I can't believe I could have missed it. I must have been only a hundred yards or so away. ....

Take a short line & a float with you. If you've got a spare buoy with a light that would be even better.

[sailjumanji]

Could a salvage company recover their old boat, and then lien the new boat for payment? Probably not. But I bet they could go to court and the judge put a lien on new boat, or force them to sell it to raise money to pay their bill. That said, they would probably just gofundme for money to pay off the salvage company that was trying to "steal our dream".

Enough is enough. Coast Guard needs to fine their respective butts until they get that wreck removed. Things are going to get really ugly when the mast pokes a hole in another boat.

[hellosailor]

"and then lien the new boat"
No. A private party (contractor, warehouse, repairman, etc.) can only file a lien on something in accord with state and federal lien statutes or admiralty law. So, a salvor could only file a salvage lien on the vessel, under those laws.

A judge can award a judgment against anyone for anything, reasonable or not, and at that point the judgment has to be enforced (collected) by a collections agency, or a sheriff, or other party. Winning your court case is only stage one. Getting your judgment enforced and actually COLLECTING it, can be a much longer harder process.

The judgment usually can be filed against all assets and income and is effective normally for ten years, at which point you can ask for a ten year extension. Assets that may be exempted under state law include homestead property, retirement accounts, and a few other things. Collection against income usually means simply notifying the employer, who is then legally required to withhold 10% of the paychecks "forever" until the judgment is fulfilled.
Again, that all varies by state. Bottom line is that the judgment CAN stick around for 20 years to haunt you. Among other things, if you ever apply for employment, they may not want to hire someone with that albatross around their neck. Landlords might similarly not want to rent to potential deadbeats.


I can see that GFM would continue to let them solicit funds and meanwhile only make refunds to the people who complain. After all, if someone doesn't complain...presumably they aren't bothered, or concerned enough to follow up. And then GFM gets to keep their percent of that "satisfied" donor's funds.

"Not on my watch."

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Here's a link to their Go fund Me page which is still up & running. In fact there were 2 more donations this morning. The recent update to the page makes no mention of them planning on removing what's left of the boat which appears to have broken up & completely submerged making it difficult to locate. I think a good Samaritan putting a buoy on the wreck is the best that can be hoped for now.

https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life

Read through their Go Fund Me, it is on there in all fairness.

BTW, two sailboats hit the shoal today. One we are not sure exactly what he got, but he came in taking on water to the point BoatUS had to tow him to the yard with pumps. The other made it off OK on his own.

Hit and miss, one drove through the shoal last night to the point the Bridge Tender was trying to call and warn them. They said they saw 6' all of the way in, and got close once.

We will not use the pass right now with that boat and the moving shoal until the boat is moved and the channel is dredged. Clear Water or Pass a Grill and 2 lift bridges.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Could a salvage company recover their old boat, and then lien the new boat for payment? Probably not. But I bet they could go to court and the judge put a lien on new boat, or force them to sell it to raise money to pay their bill. That said, they would probably just gofundme for money to pay off the salvage company that was trying to "steal our dream".

Enough is enough. Coast Guard needs to fine their respective butts until they get that wreck removed. Things are going to get really ugly when the mast pokes a hole in another boat.

NO. CG has nothing to do with it. They will save you, and they will maintain aids to navigation. They don't recover vessels or even tow unless it is to save the vessel from peril, but they are only required to get the people off, not save the boat.

Here is what applies:

Derelict, Abandoned & At Risk Vessels

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"and then lien the new boat"
No. A private party (contractor, warehouse, repairman, etc.) can only file a lien on something in accord with state and federal lien statutes or admiralty law. So, a salvor could only file a salvage lien on the vessel, under those laws.

A judge can award a judgment against anyone for anything, reasonable or not, and at that point the judgment has to be enforced (collected) by a collections agency, or a sheriff, or other party. Winning your court case is only stage one. Getting your judgment enforced and actually COLLECTING it, can be a much longer harder process.

The judgment usually can be filed against all assets and income and is effective normally for ten years, at which point you can ask for a ten year extension. Assets that may be exempted under state law include homestead property, retirement accounts, and a few other things. Collection against income usually means simply notifying the employer, who is then legally required to withhold 10% of the paychecks "forever" until the judgment is fulfilled.
Again, that all varies by state. Bottom line is that the judgment CAN stick around for 20 years to haunt you. Among other things, if you ever apply for employment, they may not want to hire someone with that albatross around their neck. Landlords might similarly not want to rent to potential deadbeats.


I can see that GFM would continue to let them solicit funds and meanwhile only make refunds to the people who complain. After all, if someone doesn't complain...presumably they aren't bothered, or concerned enough to follow up. And then GFM gets to keep their percent of that "satisfied" donor's funds.

"Not on my watch."

Maritime liens are very different animals depending on whether the boat is documented or not.

For good information and a pretty decent guy for an attorney, see:

Ask The Attorney – The Log

There are plenty of questions answered regarding liens good reading for anyone.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Could a salvage company recover their old boat, and then lien the new boat for payment? Probably not. But I bet they could go to court and the judge put a lien on new boat, or force them to sell it to raise money to pay their bill. That said, they would probably just gofundme for money to pay off the salvage company that was trying to "steal our dream".

Enough is enough. Coast Guard needs to fine their respective butts until they get that wreck removed. Things are going to get really ugly when the mast pokes a hole in another boat.

So you believe another boat will be outside the channel and hit the wreck? Maybe a notice to mariners to stay in the channel is needed??

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"and then lien the new boat"
No. A private party (contractor, warehouse, repairman, etc.) can only file a lien on something in accord with state and federal lien statutes or admiralty law. So, a salvor could only file a salvage lien on the vessel, under those laws.

A judge can award a judgment against anyone for anything, reasonable or not, and at that point the judgment has to be enforced (collected) by a collections agency, or a sheriff, or other party. Winning your court case is only stage one. Getting your judgment enforced and actually COLLECTING it, can be a much longer harder process.

The judgment usually can be filed against all assets and income and is effective normally for ten years, at which point you can ask for a ten year extension. Assets that may be exempted under state law include homestead property, retirement accounts, and a few other things. Collection against income usually means simply notifying the employer, who is then legally required to withhold 10% of the paychecks "forever" until the judgment is fulfilled.
Again, that all varies by state. Bottom line is that the judgment CAN stick around for 20 years to haunt you. Among other things, if you ever apply for employment, they may not want to hire someone with that albatross around their neck. Landlords might similarly not want to rent to potential deadbeats.


I can see that GFM would continue to let them solicit funds and meanwhile only make refunds to the people who complain. After all, if someone doesn't complain...presumably they aren't bothered, or concerned enough to follow up. And then GFM gets to keep their percent of that "satisfied" donor's funds.

"Not on my watch."

Anyone can file a lien, whether it holds up in court is a different issue.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by DotDun

So you believe another boat will be outside the channel and hit the wreck? Maybe a notice to mariners to stay in the channel is needed??

Uh, no. But I believe the wreck can be swept into the channel and be a real hazard with a mast poking out.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Kita

That’s a good idea, I didn't think about GPS, I have a hand held I can use in the dink...the sand bar is not that big really, I will try to get some numbers & post them Monday night. ...thanks!

The Pinellas Sheriff frowns on the idea of anyone going out there trying to mark the wreck.

Nikki and Tanner are trying to do the right thing at this point and the Sheriff's Dept is staying on top of it, so everyone, please reserve judgement until that changes.

I was told today that it is a totally different animal than it was to salvage. It is too late to bag it and tow it in and more difficult of a job.

If anyone hears from the 40' Sailboat that was holed in the pass today, please see if you can find out details. Unsure of the type, but looked like a nice pilot house or unique deck saloon.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by tdoster

Nikki and Tanner are trying to do the right thing at this point and the Sheriff's Dept is staying on top of it, so everyone, please reserve judgement until that changes.

.

Can you give anymore details of what Nikki and Tanner are doing and what caused the delay?

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by DotDun

So you believe another boat will be outside the channel and hit the wreck? Maybe a notice to mariners to stay in the channel is needed??

There IS and HAS BEEN a daily Notice to Mariners for that pass in general. Anyone >3' should avoid or use extreme caution.

[ArmyDaveNY]

According to a local news report, a local tour company captain said the Corps of Engineers is scheduled to start dredging the channel this April or roughly a month away. If the boat has indeed broken up as the one photo suggests, the Corps of Engineers may remove it as part of the dredging process. I've seen a few dredging operations and it is not a delicate process. They will likely scoop parts of it up without even realizing it.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Uh, no. But I believe the wreck can be swept into the channel and be a real hazard with a mast poking out.

It's hardly likely to be swept anywhere if the hull is full of sand, as well it may be, given the turbulent currents in that channel.
Dredging of river sand in my part of the world is usually done with a suction type equipment. Others may use a Clam bucket, escalator type of bucket wheel or even a backhoe. It all depends on what type your Army Corps of Engineers use as to what effect it will have on the wreck.
Other comments here suggest the hull has broken up in which case, the mast is hardly likely to remain a hazard to other vessels unless it is stuck in the sand at an angle.
Too much speculation being done here by the Corps of Armchair Critics who are all too ready to pounce on this young 'newby' couple, simply to sound "oh so righteous" simply to crucify them on the podium of public opinion.
This posting has got to be coming close to some kind of record for the number of responses.