Avoiding races - how out of line was I?

[inspectr]

When my boat was new and my kids were smaller we picked them up in Rose Bay and motored out. There was a dinghy race going on so I postponed getting the sails up, intending to go past and around the race fleet. I gave the mob of little boats about 100M, closer to the lee of the Rose Bay Hills.
A Woollahra Sailing Club RIB roared over towards us and the driver yelled abuse at me. shouting, "We are racing!"
My two kids who were due to join the club and learn sailing on little boats both refused to go - two kids and their dad lost to the club.
My 70th in a few weeks, one of the choices of venue was the club which I and the kids vetoed.
Racers on Sydney Harbour seem to think they have special rights too.

[Mirage35]

Well, I was trying, and successfully avoided the first, third and fourth race groups. The third group was going way outside the markers but they were ahead and far enough away that I could change course to adapt.

It was just the ones that came up from behind faster than expected that became an issue.

Thanks all for the feedback and stories.

And StuM: I gybed just after his jibe . Canadian - I speak both.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Nope, the waterway was clearly not a closed course, so they have no special rights to the waterway.

The OP tried to avoid but as is common, the race courses are set up with no consideration of non-racing boats. A chase boat on either end who would run along side non-racing boats and POLITELY request that they stay to the west (east?) side of the channel would be far more effective and not leave people despising racers.

The waterway is to be shared by all.
Sometimes , Annapolis or SF Bay as examples, this becomes a complex overlapping of interests, particularly with racing vessels vs non-racing day sailors.
Locals tend to know the areas and politely avoid. The race committee has no right to run you out, but generally will politely ask you to tack to avoid a potential conflict for a competitor or reduce your wake if it will effect the course

This changes if the race course is a sanctioned event, in which then the course may have restrictions. This will generally be 1) announced via VHF, 2) will have law enforcement patrolling 3) and you will know by observing other non-competitive traffic 4) is announced via public notice prior to (USCG notice to mariners) event.
Examples are sailing Nationals, Worlds, Olympics, etc. as well as various M/V competitions, or any other sanctioned event. (sanctioned term meaning law enforcement gave prior notice of approval to close.restrict the area)

[Tillerjockey]

If I'm racing, I basically don't want a cruiser to steal my wind, or make me change course to avoid him. The polite thing to do is alter course if you can to pass astern of a racer going to windward, or pass in front of a racer sailing downwind. When I'm not racing I still enjoy going up to the windward mark and watch the racers set their spinnakers, the leeward mark is also interesting when they are taking down the spinnaker. it is an amazing site to the whole fleet of boats coming down at you with their spinnakers up. I have several cool photos. So go watch the race and enjoy the show.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Great stories; thanks for sharing!

A flood of wonderful, youth memories. You often don't realize in the moment how special a situation or a person is until you reflect back, especially with the added perspective of maturity.

My racing days are long over. I enjoyed gaining enhanced skills from racing but rarely enjoyed the sailing experience like I did and do when just putzing without the hecticness. When I go golfing I don't even bother to keep score and often try to place my ball into a more challenging lie rather than attempting to place it cleanly in the fairway or onto the green. There being great joy to call your shot and say: The bunker to the front left of the green." and then watch it land in the sand and require a chip out to the green. And even more fun, if the first person to tee off gets to call the spot and then everyone else has to match or beat attaining the tough lie. My golf instructor when I was a young teenager taught us with that method such that each and every placement of your golf ball was planned and made to be a challenge. Choosing to put your ball into the trees and the specific places of the rough added a lot to the game which otherwise is really kind of easy and stupid, IMHO, once you have garnered the basic skills to hit the ball where you intend it to go. Go Hard, then Go Harder was the advice of the golfing instructor at the Alameda Naval Air Station in S.F. Bay, a simple 3 putt, 9 hole course on the Base overlooking the Oakland Alameda estuary which simple course could be made into a grand challenge if you sought out it's tougher lies and obstacles. You learn to become skilled in the use of a rake to smooth out the sand bunkers when you strive to get into them. He said our class should join the Marines since we came to enjoy making landings in the sand so much. There were times when we were not holding up any other golfers playing behind us that we would strive to just chip our golf balls back and forth into the various bunkers around a green instead of cleanly onto the green out of the first bunker. Four kids simultaneously swing often aiming to chip their ball next to one of the other kids in an adjacent bunker so that kid could then chip it back to them and eventually spot for the hole.

[CaptTom]

Similar thing happened to me last week. Planned well in advance to avoid the obvious racers, but a second batch, apparently in a separate race, rounded some unseen mark right into my path. I did my best to get and stay out of the way, and I think I was successful, but only just.

My understanding is that if it's a sanctioned race (e.g,; published in the LNM) then there is some presumption of privilege over non-participants. Maybe it is really just a courtesy consideration, but the CG can and does change the rules for special events. So at least some of the time, the racers MAY have some special standing.

It's easiest just to avoid getting mixed up in races wherever possible.

[Lemsteraak]

This is interesting, I appreciate the cruiser's perspective. Here is the view from race management.

I was fleet captain at a small sailing club for the last few years. We put on more than 400 races each summer not including our major regattas. Add to this that we have more than 900 students going through our, racing, summer camps and learn to sail programs. Needless to say, we project a large footprint on a relatively small river.

Safety is a major concern. We have at least one safety boat for classes and at least two for races. All commercial traffic and larger boats get an escort and we maintain radio contact with them. If a racer gets between the escort and commercial boat they get a DSQ and are led away. Even still, we have confusion and last Monday night I was running a race with 22 competitors and a small tour boat insisted on going right through the middle of the fleet. We requested that he slowed down his pace by a minute or two to allow a rounding and then he would have a clear channel. He blew 5 blasts and we had to DSQ two boats and lead them off the course. I had to write up an incident report and apologize to the tour boat.

The only time we have trouble with cruising boats is when they go through our start/finish lines during a countdown. We still work around it or postpone the start, no big deal. Our larger concern is with very fast powerboats and inexperienced captains, always a bad combination.

So, If you ever have an encounter where a racer is disrespectful, get their number and sail over to the race committee boat, tell them of the incident. If I were running a race I would want to know and I'll have a discussion with the skipper. If this behavior continues, contact the governing yacht club as it is bad race management and putting all boats at risk.

All Race Committees communicate by VHF between boat, usually channel 68.

[Djarraluda]

Of course there is also the fact that many racers do not know the rules themselves. Racing some weeks ago, dead down wind approaching the mark on Stbd, a bigger boat comes inside me, on Pt and calls overlap. Having told him No, I am on Stbd he gets aggressive and pushes me, his crew using my staunchions as leverage until I hit the idiot on his hands and swore at him. The turkey blithely ignores port/Stbd regularly when it suits him
Roger

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by StuM

...It's polite to stay well clear of racers.
But racers don't have any entitlement over non-racers. COLREGs apply.

A few years ago we were sailing around the NE corner of Sardinia and in the narrow channels between it and the offlying islets came face to face with the Rolex Maxi-Yacht race fleet; we knew they were out there, but were surprised and caught out by how fast they'd got around the course.

We were in no hurry and broad reaching on starboard tack with most of the leading boats approaching close hauled on port; we called up the first and enquired which way they'd like us to steer to give them a clear run and repeated the enquiry with each of the subsequent yachts; after the first three or four they were calling us in turn and whilst some passed incredibly close (we got some great photos!) I don't think we impeded anyone, certainly all but one called up after they'd passed to say thank you. Though, whilst this was all happening we could also here radio calls from another cruising yacht perhaps 3-4M astern of us insisting that he was on starboard tack/stand-on vessel and demanding that the advancing race fleet alter course accordingly. Yes, he had the collision regs on his side, but why mess up someone else's day when you don't have to?

[DameGravey]

Originally Posted by Djarraluda

Of course there is also the fact that many racers do not know the rules themselves. Racing some weeks ago, dead down wind approaching the mark on Stbd, a bigger boat comes inside me, on Pt and calls overlap. Having told him No, I am on Stbd he gets aggressive and pushes me, his crew using my staunchions as leverage until I hit the idiot on his hands and swore at him. The turkey blithely ignores port/Stbd regularly when it suits him
Roger

RRS Rule 18 modifies the Port Starboard rule and can give, in certain circumstances right of way (with responsibilities) to a boat on port tack, in this instance subsequent actions may have infringed a number of other rules.

Back to the OP's remarks, there are a some racers (and officials) that believe they have priority, most others are a little more understanding, from my perspective as a sailor who does a bit of racing I appreciate a non racing boat to be predictable in their actions, if they are to avoid a racing fleet take their actions early to make it clear what they are doing, if not, keep sailing in a seamanship manner. I really believe it to be better manners to thank a non sailing boat for their actions not to abuse someone for their non actions especially if they are navigating correctly.

Racing on Sydney Harbour is full of interactions with non racing boats as well as boats racing in other fleets, from ocean going passenger liners to mirror dinghies not to mention a fleet of ferries that have absolute right of way under local regulations, the better racers may be able to use these moving obstructions (a technical term, not a judgement of the other vessel) to their tactical advantage.

Like just about everything in our lives interacting with others, a little understanding and courtesy goes a long way.

Graeme

[thunderhoof]

My congrats to the OP for being aware of the race activity and trying to make things easier for the racers. I understand that those who do not race may not understand things that are important to those involved. The main things I appreciate from not racers is: 1. Make your intentions clear. We tend to pass other boats fairly closely if they are along our preferred course (Not OK for us to scare the cruisers) so keeping a steady course helps us judge where to go. Or tack/ jibe sooner rather than later if that is your plan. 2. Try to give buoys and other marks the racers are using a wide berth. Most of the racers are going right there and they have their competitors to deal with plus they are changing sails and trimming like crazy... so please don't be the ham in the sandwich.
We know the COLREGS apply in all cases, thanks in advance for helping us out.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Djarraluda

Of course there is also the fact that many racers do not know the rules themselves. Racing some weeks ago, dead down wind approaching the mark on Stbd, a bigger boat comes inside me, on Pt and calls overlap. Having told him No, I am on Stbd he gets aggressive and pushes me, his crew using my staunchions as leverage until I hit the idiot on his hands and swore at him. The turkey blithely ignores port/Stbd regularly when it suits him
Roger

Assuming you were racing against each other, at a mark Rule 18 would also come into play, and by the sounds of things he did have an overlap and was entitled to room to round the mark inside of you (for which he would presumably have to gybe onto starboard at some point). The Port/starboard rule still operates as well, so the boat on port cant just go crashing into the starboard boat or forcing him further away from the mark than necessary, but in this case the starboard boat must allow room for the port boat to gybe and round the mark inside him .

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by StuM

It's polite to stay well clear of racers.
But racers don't have any entitlement over non-racers. COLREGs apply.

Yes, this is the heart of it. And as a polite/responsible boater, I do my level best to stay clear. In candor, I became a good sailor by racing and that also means I both understand racing procedures and relate to racing sailors.

Situational awareness of racing activities is just one more of those things a skipper needs to work with as well and as safely as he can.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boat driver

The waterway is to be shared by all.
Sometimes , Annapolis or SF Bay as examples, this becomes a complex overlapping of interests, particularly with racing vessels vs non-racing day sailors.
Locals tend to know the areas and politely avoid. The race committee has no right to run you out, but generally will politely ask you to tack to avoid a potential conflict for a competitor or reduce your wake if it will effect the course

This changes if the race course is a sanctioned event, in which then the course may have restrictions. This will generally be 1) announced via VHF, 2) will have law enforcement patrolling 3) and you will know by observing other non-competitive traffic 4) is announced via public notice prior to (USCG notice to mariners) event.
Examples are sailing Nationals, Worlds, Olympics, etc. as well as various M/V competitions, or any other sanctioned event. (sanctioned term meaning law enforcement gave prior notice of approval to close.restrict the area)

No one is questioning that if you can politely stay clear do so... The OP from his description tried to.

I was responding to a post that insultingly implied the OP was rude for not reading the race committees mind when they were all over the channel.

[Djarraluda]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Assuming you were racing against each other, at a mark Rule 18 would also come into play, and by the sounds of things he did have an overlap and was entitled to room to round the mark inside of you (for which he would presumably have to gybe onto starboard at some point). The Port/starboard rule still operates as well, so the boat on port cant just go crashing into the starboard boat or forcing him further away from the mark than necessary, but in this case the starboard boat must allow room for the port boat to gybe and round the mark inside him .

If he had gybed onto Stb, then yes, but he didn't. He was on Port, I was on Starboard, both sailing true course dead downwind. As such, he was completely in the wrong. Secondly, he deliberately hit me, which is a fundamental breach of colregs anyway. IF and it is a very big if given the Port/Starboard, he thought he was in the right, ,his correct action would be to miss the mark, then protest and seek redress.
We never have the right to cause an accident, even if the result was that he left a graze on his topsides from my aluminium toerail but leaving no trace on my boat