Backing into a slip pointed into a 2knot current

[gonesail]

find a new slip where you aren't required to back in. otherwise get used to dinging up your boat when the wind and current are up.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

I'm thinking spring line to a mid-ship cleat. The other end to the piling at the fairway side of the slip to starboard. As you back in, it should bring you up to the starboard side of the dock when it tightens.

I think this is the ticket.

Are you solo? This may work, even solo. Try it out:

• attach a docking line to your midship cleat (or shrouds if you don't have one). Put a large fixed loop at the right length so the boat will come to rest where you want it to.
• As you back past the cleat on the end of the finger, drop the spring line over it.
• Back in until the spring is tight. Leave the boat in reverse gear, keeping the spring tight.
• Step off with the stern line and make it fast.

The boat should stay where it is and you can walk up to the bow, make it fast and then shut down the engine.

This is very much dependent on the particulars of your boat, how bad the prop walk is, etc. You may be able to find the right amount of reverse thrust that the boat will sit in balance, or the stern will only slowly walk off (try it static at the dock).

The spring line is sucking your boat towards the finger, the current is trying push it away, and so is the prop walk. More reverse will suck the boat in stronger to the dock via the spring, but also rotate the stern away.

Play with it anyways, and maybe it will work out. It should definitely work with one crew who can stand amidships holding both the spring line and stern line. They stand backwards at the shrouds (face the boat). They can then safely step down under control holding the shrouds at the start of the finger.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

I think this is the ticket.

Are you solo? This may work, even solo. Try it out:

• attach a docking line to your midship cleat (or shrouds if you don't have one). Put a large fixed loop at the right length so the boat will come to rest where you want it to.
• As you back past the cleat on the end of the finger, drop the spring line over it. You will have to be quick with this, as you move from the helm to the side of the boat.
• Back in until the spring is tight. Leave the boat in reverse gear, keeping the spring tight. Keep the engine revs up enough to do this till all the lines are secure.
• Step off with the stern line and make it fast.

The boat should stay where it is and you can walk up to the bow, make it fast and then shut down the engine.

This is very much dependent on the particulars of your boat, how bad the prop walk is, etc. You may be able to find the right amount of reverse thrust that the boat will sit in balance, or the stern will only slowly walk off (try it static at the dock).

The spring line is sucking your boat towards the finger, the current is trying push it away, and so is the prop walk. More reverse will suck the boat in stronger to the dock via the spring, but also rotate the stern away.

Play with it anyways, and maybe it will work out. It should definitely work with one crew who can stand amidships holding both the spring line and stern line. They stand backwards at the shrouds (face the boat). They can then safely step down under control holding the shrouds at the start of the finger.

This is pretty much what we do, but going in forward in slips new to us... We use a line on the midships cleat for the "brakes", and it works quite well, but it does require two. I get off with the "brake" line, and the stern line, cleat both on the aftmost cleat, then grab the bow line (which I leave with its bitter end hanging over the lifelines at the shrouds, and take it forward. Normally, I secure the windward bow line first, then leeward.

It is going to be tricky for the OP, alone, and backing in, but if he's always going into the same pen, and sets up his "brakes" spring properly, cwyckham's method will work for him.

Ann

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

This is pretty much what we do, but going in forward in slips new to us... We use a line on the midships cleat for the "brakes", and it works quite well, but it does require two. I get off with the "brake" line, and the stern line, cleat both on the aftmost cleat, then grab the bow line (which I leave with its bitter end hanging over the lifelines at the shrouds, and take it forward. Normally, I secure the windward bow line first, then leeward.

It is going to be tricky for the OP, alone, and backing in, but if he's always going into the same pen, and sets up his "brakes" spring properly, cwyckham's method will work for him.

Ann

Yeah, this is exactly what we do every time, but like you, we go in forwards. I've also only done it solo once. I usually have one person stepping off at the shrouds as we come in, then I hop off with engine still in gear to help once the spring takes the force.

I think if you're solo, it will actually work better going backwards than forwards because you can just lean over and drop the spring line onto the cleat as the aft end comes even with the start of the finger. You'll then move back a complete boat length before it stops the boat, and you're right next to the stern cleat, so step off and cleat the stern.

Nose in, if you miss the cleat, your boat is 3 feet away from crashing and you have to throw it in reverse and the prop walk throws you around. Backing in, if you miss the cleat, the whole boat is in the fairway, and you throw it into forward with all the benefit of vectored thrust off the rudder.

I've seen people do this with a boat hook.

I also think it's pretty theoretical with all these variables and very dependent on the boat. The nice thing about this method nose-in is that you can turn the wheel a bit to balance the torque from the spring line, but in reverse, you're just hoping the various torques from current, wind, and prop-walk will balance long enough to get the stern line on.

[GregW1309]

I agree with cwyckham, but if you are single or short handed, go from the mid ship cleat, loop the spring line around the dock cleat and then take it to a cockpit winch. That will allow you to adjust it from the helm area. Take a look at Duncan Well's book Stress-Free Sailing, Single and short handed techniques. He has a lot of good ideas for short handed sailing, and links to videos that demonstrait the techniques he proposes. You also might invest in more fenders....If you need to back in for the shore power, get a longer shore power cord!

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Jim Beck

I almost always dock stern in. You might try turning around and stand facing aft, with the wheel in front of you. Then, the steering works just as your used to. Of course you have to get used to the fact that you have to get a little speed before you will have steerage. I find the biggest mistake I make is not maintaining momentum. When you do need to stop, shifting into forward is immediately effective.

This is how I do it too, but if there's adverse wind or current, I start quite a a bit earlier up the fairwair to give the boat momentum and then prop walk is no longer a concern. It's a little funny to see a boat moving like this backwards for a long distance, but just "steer it like a car," I say. Just don't let go of the wheel because the water flow over the prop will spin the wheel out of control as the rudder goes sideways. If I'm understanding the direction of current and location of the dock, too, then if you have a final keel, you would oversteer just slightly past the opening and pivot in reverse to get in a little hot, straighten the wheel as you are coming in and goose the throttle to slow down. I do this singlehanded so I also have a fender at the stern end of the dock where I can "rest" the boat (keeping it in reverse) to get the lines on, which are long enough to take with me when I get off usually from the stern if the boat is a little crooked. For your situation, you might want the fenders on the port side of the dock as the current is pushing the boat that way. If course, this assumes you have a finger pier on that side! It would be really hard to do if the only finger pier is on starboard and the current is pushing you away from it as soon as the boat slows. I'm sure all boats behave differently depending on their bottom type and the location of the prop, but I don't see how this maneuver can be done safely singlehanded if you had to leave the wheel to loop a line to a cleat that's moving past and below the toerail quite a bit! It does help to have old hull paint so you don't cringe when things go a little squirrelly, as they might from time to time. Having a boat hook at your immediate ready for that kind of situation is also good to have, too. Practicing lots with people on your dock I'm the beginning, could be really helpful. Good luck!!!

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by GregW1309

I agree with cwyckham, but if you are single or short handed, go from the mid ship cleat, loop the spring line around the dock cleat and then take it to a cockpit winch. That will allow you to adjust it from the helm area. Take a look at Duncan Well's book Stress-Free Sailing, Single and short handed techniques. He has a lot of good ideas for short handed sailing, and links to videos that demonstrait the techniques he proposes. You also might invest in more fenders....If you need to back in for the shore power, get a longer shore power cord!

The power cable has nothing to do with why I am backing in. These are yacht club rules for this row. It makes sense since without bow thrusters it would be a bear to back out of the slip and out of the alley.

The current is my concern. Today it was running at 3+ kts and an experienced neighbor decided to cancel practice. We spent a lot of time talking through the problem. It is quite rare that there are more than 2 or 3 of us on the boat.

[Micheldawes]

Hi Dave,
I need to make certain I understand your situation before I give my two cents worth. I’m assuming you’re backing all the way from outside the marina, down the channel between arms, with the current on your Port side and ending up stern in, Stbd side to the berth (i.e. Stbd side tie-up) and your title intimates a two knot current(?)
If this is the correct scenario and I am presuming you have more than one of YOUR boatlengths between marina arms, (Yours and the adjacent UP CURRENT marina arm) I would use the two knot current to your advantage by ‘Stemming the tide’ (i.e. aligning yourself on APPROXIMATELY the same heading as your heading when finally secure in your slip - BEFORE you enter the channel between marina arms and then match your speed EXACTLY (This takes a little practice and a lot of concentration!) to the rate of current). Then, if the current is indeed approximately five degrees on your stbd bow, you will find yourself slowly drifting to Port, down the channel towards your berth. Whenever possible, always use stationary, up current objects (Piles are perfect, as they generally show a ‘wake’ that illustrates the direction of the current) to check current direction.
The tricky part is when you have arrived adjacent to and up current of your berth and you need to simultaneously adjust heading slightly to Stbd (To place the current directly on your bow) and also very slightly reduce revs to very slowly make sternway (e.g. 1.8kn into the current, but 0.2kn over the ground WITH the current, assuming the original 2 knot current!)
Have a single mooring line (Approximately the length of your boat, with the eye of the line on a midships cleat and the bitter end led back to a cockpit winch and plenty of slack in the bight, from the eye to a midships fairlead (Ideally just aft of your midships cleat) and you can, if conditions allow, drape this bight over your lifelines adjacent, or close to your helm position and when you are close enough to a dock cleat that is AFT of your midships fairlead, but JUST forward of your helm position, loosely hold the mooring line around two to three feet from the apex of the bight of the line and you should HOPEFULLY be able to drape the bight over the aforementioned dock cleat and then haul on the bitter end of the mooring line (Already around a cockpit winch)
Remember you always have the ability to lightly rest the boat against the dock (Adequately fendered of course) and as long as your speed and the current match (And the current is now on your Port bow!) you have all the time necessary to get your mooring line over the dock cleat whilst the current pushes your boat against the dock.
Once you have the mooring line (In this instance, effectively a Fwd spring) successfully draped over the dock cleat, slack hauled in and bitter end secured (Self tailer, or even better still around a cleat!), you can then start putting lines ashore to finish securing. Once you are satisfied that the vessel is adequately secured you can slowly ease the throttle until the weight has come EQUALLY on ALL of your mooring lines, making any adjustments as needed.
I realise this sounds like a very complex and convoluted process, but once you’ve seen it done a couple of times, or done it yourself, it won’t seem so mind bogglingly complex!
Hope this helps and look forward to hearing your results... Cheers, Mike

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Boat is a Beneteau 343.

I have a new slip where I must back in. The current is about 5 degrees to starboard of my bow. The slip is on the starboard. The prop walk pulls me to Port.

In addition to enlisting help from people in my marina, which I am doing, do you have recommendations? One of my neighbors has offered to work with me and I’ll take him up on his offer.

Before moving I did a lot of backing practice in a marina with no current and other practice alongside a dock with plenty of current. I got pretty capable with both of those scenarios.

Neither really prepared me for this situation. Pointers to YouTube videos or other recommendations would be appreciated.

A few suggestions. When backing in, start from a good distance off to allow the prop walk to dissipate and the rudder to dominate. Keep a slow, constant speed up and adjust your track as you go. Face aft and pretend that you're facing the bow, the control movements to the wheel or tiller will be identical to what they would be if you were facing forward and in forward gear. It's more intuitive that way. Lastly, remember that neutral gear is a default position you should repeatedly resume after control movements are input, and as long as the vessel is moving in the direction you want, don't do anything. And remember, if things go bad, don't hesitate to do what pilots do on a missed approach: abort it, "go around," and try again with what you've learned.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Boat is a Beneteau 343.

I have a new slip where I must back in. The current is about 5 degrees to starboard of my bow. The slip is on the starboard. The prop walk pulls me to Port.

In addition to enlisting help from people in my marina, which I am doing, do you have recommendations? One of my neighbors has offered to work with me and I’ll take him up on his offer.

Before moving I did a lot of backing practice in a marina with no current and other practice alongside a dock with plenty of current. I got pretty capable with both of those scenarios.

Neither really prepared me for this situation. Pointers to YouTube videos or other recommendations would be appreciated.

I think a diagram would be helpful. When you say the slip is to starboard, do you mean that the finger pier is to starboard or that entering from a fairway, the slip is on starboard? I'm not sure I'm visualizing this properly.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Boat is a Beneteau 343.

I have a new slip where I must back in. The current is about 5 degrees to starboard of my bow. The slip is on the starboard. The prop walk pulls me to Port.

Assuming this is a newer Bene with an undercut forefoot, once that bow gets moving it just wants to go. They can be a bear to back down into a slip! Also assuming that you do not have a thruster- some of the new Jenneau 34's have them, and when it is blowing, makes controlling their skidish bow easier.

Okay-- first the dock is to stbd and the current is to stbd, pushing the bow to port. This is a good thing, it is actually helping you.

You need about 1.5kts of water speed to make the rudder work. Before attempting what I am suggesting, practice turning your back to the wheel and driving her astern in that manner. This gives you a much better field of view and ability to visualize where you will put the boat. Also get an idea of how fast the boat speed (not GPS) needs to be for the rudder to overcome prop walk.

With that skill mastered, take a longish approach to your slip. Get her going astern at the slowest speed the rudder will work. Now start the turn into the slip a tad late. Aim the stbd quarter to enter the slip a few feet into your slip. This will allow you to use the current to move the bow to port, decreasing the turning radius - as if you were turning with a bow thruster. Once you master the current, reading speed from the wake of the other pilings, you will get better at this.

When your down-current beam cleat is along the outer-most piling, scrub any excess speed by "bouncing" her into forward.

Make her fast, and pour us both a double Jack.

[davefromoregon]

To provide more info as others have requested. I go forward into the alley.

There are boat houses about 30m from my slip on the opposite side of the alley. In other wards, I have about 30m to work with. There are no piles.

[akprb]

Question to the OP.

What has been your most helpful answer?

Curious :-)

[Dockhead]

I would not attempt this without a rope. Not even with a 10hp bow thruster like I have.

Kenomac described well how hard it is to maneuver by stemming the current, and how it's all backwards. (And to the guy who was talking about standing behind the wheel -- great technique, but if confusion over which way to turn the wheel is a challenge for you, then, with respect, you are not ready to try to dock by stemming a current.) But I don't think you actually can stem a 2 knot current taking you away from the dock -- that would require being able to maneuver under control at less than 2 knots. I don't know about your boat, but I cannot do that -- I don't have steerage at 1.5 knots.

I know this from hard experience with a similar berth on the Hamble River, which has strong tidal currents. Trying to enter a slip with a 2 knot current is basically out of control, and eventually I heard the professional skippers on the slips on either side of me say that you just don't go out until the tide changes. A four knot current is already a lot better -- you can make 3 knots through the water against the current and drift downstream under some modicum of control at 1 knot (subject to complex steering problems). But 2 knots -- that's just out of control, on my boat anyway.

So FWIW, I would get a rope on anyway I could and either power against it or use a sheet winch to haul the boat in.

From time to time I have to berth my boat single handed against wind or current. I typically power up to the pontoon or quay and do a Captain Ron turn into it, then throw a rope with a bowline on it over a cleat, pre-prepared on a big electric sheet winch. Then as the boat is blown off or carried off by the current, I just haul in on that line. That won't work in the OP's case because he can't power up into the pontoon. But a midship spring put smartly onto the first cleat on the pontoon could work. A current, unlike wind, at least won't be pushing the bow off.

Whatever you do, hang fenders liberally on the off side, raised up to rail level in order to protect the boat on the other side. No matter how good you are, no matter what technique you use, there is a big risk of going onto the other boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Snore

Assuming this is a newer Bene with an undercut forefoot, once that bow gets moving it just wants to go. They can be a bear to back down into a slip! Also assuming that you do not have a thruster- some of the new Jenneau 34's have them, and when it is blowing, makes controlling their skidish bow easier.

Okay-- first the dock is to stbd and the current is to stbd, pushing the bow to port. This is a good thing, it is actually helping you.

You need about 1.5kts of water speed to make the rudder work. Before attempting what I am suggesting, practice turning your back to the wheel and driving her astern in that manner. This gives you a much better field of view and ability to visualize where you will put the boat. Also get an idea of how fast the boat speed (not GPS) needs to be for the rudder to overcome prop walk.

With that skill mastered, take a longish approach to your slip. Get her going astern at the slowest speed the rudder will work. Now start the turn into the slip a tad late. Aim the stbd quarter to enter the slip a few feet into your slip. This will allow you to use the current to move the bow to port, decreasing the turning radius - as if you were turning with a bow thruster. Once you master the current, reading speed from the wake of the other pilings, you will get better at this.

When your down-current beam cleat is along the outer-most piling, scrub any excess speed by "bouncing" her into forward.

Make her fast, and pour us both a double Jack.

Probably this is just over my head and beyond my modest skills, but how could this possibly work?

If you are moving astern with a 2 knot current with bare steerage at 1.5 knots, then you are moving at 3.5 knots over ground, with a significant component of motion away from the dock you want to get into, and onto the boat you don't want to crash into.

Once you get anywhere near your slip you will desperately need to get that way off, and as you do so, you will be dead in the water with no steerage just being swept in the wrong direction by the current, until you can get from 1.5 knots through the water astern to 1.5 knots through the water ahead -- how far will the current carry you out of control, during that time? You will power ahead to slow yourself down, and if you port your helm to try to get the stern closer to the dock, then the bow will just spin off as the current catches the keel.

If you can really make steerage at 1.5 knots (not possible in my boat), then I might try stemming the current as Kenomac suggested, but the sideways component of the current will create devilish problems. If you have room to be slightly sideways you might be able to slowly drift in, stemming the current, and the power ahead with port helm at just the last moment, then throw a midship spring onto a cleat, but that would be a hell of a close run thing, at best.

Maybe I didn't understand something and I'm glad to be educated, but coming in making sternway through the water seems nuts to me.