Backing out of slip - suggestions

[dmksails]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I'm going to work on setting up and using a spring line.

I took the boat out and worked on backing up - it just doesn't like it. I generally end up just going in a circle!

I used to be pretty good at spinning her - need to practice that again as well!

[Rumrace]

Sailboats seem a duck out of water in close quarters. I have twin rudders and a bow thruster. Slow doesn’t have much control at all. The boat backs up well. I’ve used a spring line to get out and to pull it into the dock. My Dad had no motor and it was annoying how well he left and arrived at a dock but it was not a crowded marina.

[TrentePieds]

dmk:

You said: "She's a big boat - 10K "

Well,no - not realy :-) TrentePieds is 11K in cruising trim, but she's a fin keeler and that makes a difference.

I grew up with Scowegian stuff, and I expect the Toshiba 31 behaves much as a Scowegian double-ender of the same displacement. The key is to not fight the boat - seduce her :-)!

It's an almost certain bet that you have a "right hand" prop, I would think about a 17D x 14P. What that will mean in practice is that your boat will be "on the cusp" Some boats of this traditional design will, when you select "astern" and bring the RPM to, say, 2,200 begin to make sternway before the "prop walk" begins to show. Others are the other way about: the "prop walk" kicks in before the boat gathers way.

You boat may be unpredictable and react one way once time and the other way another time. So you have to find an RPM at which the boat does PREDICTABLY one or the other. It doesn't matter which is is. What matters is that it is PREDICTABLE.

You are probably in a marina where there are two boats between each two finger floats, one boat port side to and the other starboard side to. Your boat will be easier to manage, because the prop walk will take your stern to PORT, if you are in a slip where you lie starboard side to the finger float. Then if you find the magic RPM where the boat will pick up sternway BEFORE the prop walk becomes pronounced you can with adroit management of the deflection of the rudder (using starboard helm) pick up enough sternway quite quickly, and the boat will "coast" out of the slip in a straight line. But once she is moving you MUST come to "stop" so the propeller doesn't turn and the boat simply moves on her momentum. "Stop" to a sailor is what a landsman would call "neutral" Best to eschew all the conceptual baggage that is carried over from driving cars :-)!

You said you'd been out practicing. Good for you! There is great value in being able to make the boat "do a pirouette" by making the prop walk work for you. You should be able to swing the boat's heading through 360ºs WITHOUT the boat making way over the ground. The boat should pivot around an imaginary vertical axis that in your case is likely to be a little aft of the mast position. Because you have a right hand prop, the pirouette should always be done with the head swinging to starboard. There is NO WAY you would ever be able to do it having the head swing to port, so don't bother trying :-)! This means that if your desired heading is 90º to port, you swing through 270º to starboard. Nothing to it :-)!

Remember that you boat is gonna move at a knot and an 'arf, or even two knots, if you leave your shifter in "forward" ("Ahead" to the sailor) even if your RPMs are at idle. Not good in confined spaces! What you do do is come to "Dead Slow", i.e. idle, and to "Stop". Then as the headway falls off, you select "Ahead" without increasing the RPM. Then when headway is up again to the maximum you can handle safely in the given situation, you come to "Stop" again and let the boat run off her way. And so on a often as necessary to get to your destination.

Best of luck and have fun :-)!

TrentePieds

[deblen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpSxQuWPfr0&t=192s

[deblen]

Using propwash ,propwalk & steerageway(rudderspeed thru water)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l55FuEmX8U8

[sck5]

You need a doubled spring line

[Cwens]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If using a line with a loop, I generally put the loop on the boat cleat as the end that won't be slipped. That way the loop is kept out of the picture during the slipping process.

Also, you and your crew should all practice retrieving a doubled line. If you have both ends secured to the boat and, at the dock end, the line looped around a cleat (or through the hole in the center of a cleat), as you cast off one end of the line and start hauling in on the other, you need to pause for a second when the last foot or two of line is about to pass the cleat, and then pull the last foot through slowly. Otherwise, the end of the line will thrash itself into a hitch on the cleat half the time. And the rope is smart, it knows when it's a windy day and you're drifting toward collision with your neighbor's boat, and will choose that moment to cleat itself.

[JBP]

Originally Posted by Sailon1

Also try gunning the throttle quickly for two or three seconds in reverse and then pull back to idle speed as the boat moves back, this reduces prop walk And you can now move forward and make the appropriate turn on the wheel.

I call this the coast and turn, and it works well if you have extreme prop walk. I use it both in reverse and forward if I need to turn opposite my prop walk. Another technique is to swing the rudder to the opposite side and give a quick hard thrust forward to get prop wash on the rudder but not long enough to stop your reverse motion, then immediately swing the rudder back and switch back to reverse slow. This can be tricky with a wheel, but is pretty easy with a tiller.

[captqrunch]

For what it's worth, this video from the Maryland School of Sailing thoroughly covers the topic of docking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoGMAEjiHmU

[lo2jones]

Great animation, and JC is correct in that with enough wind, just back out of the fairway into the main channel. I don’t understand why the spring line needs to be 3 x the boat length. One of the big charter boats I skippered, a crew member would would use a single line, pull the stern around and toss the line back to the dock, let is sink if he/she missed. She had an offset prop and had a mind of her own. I love the “Pig on ice” analogy!

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by dmksails

I took the boat out and worked on backing up - it just doesn't like it. I generally end up just going in a circle!
I used to be pretty good at spinning her - need to practice that again as well!

I relate to your situation because had some keel boats with horrible prop walk (including my current boat) and had to learn how to work with them.

Are you familiar with how prop walk and prop wash work?

Prop Walk refers to the motion of the water in reverse. Prop Wash refers to the motion of the water over the rudder going forward.

In the U.S. most engines are set up for right hand rotation and prop walk is to port and prop wash is to starboard. Opposite for left hand rotation (viewed from behind the prop or shaft facing forward). Power boats with dual engines typically have one of each so they cancel each other out and allows for more individual control in manuvering, same for catamarans.

To turn your boat within it's length you can only go clockwise- stern to port in reverse, bow to starboard in forward. If your boat is like mine you can't make a tight forward turn to port to save your life- always turn to starboard going forward. Sometimes this means going the long way around, but I learned the hard way not to chance a port turn going forward in close quarters.

I'm familiar with spring lines but have only used them on side ties in close quarters and never needed to do so getting out of a finger dock where all you need to do is manually move the boat back from the dock and jump on at midships and you're clear of your neighbor. If I can do that with my 20 ton, 47' LOA monster you can do that with yours!

One thing to remember is that when you use your engine in forward or reverse you are really steering the boat from the stern, which is where your rudder is. If you control the stern you control the bow. For example, if your bow is swinging too wide to starboard while reversing using prop walk, give a burst forward to straighten it out then continue to reverse. This is the secret to overcoming prop walk when backing up a boat. Takes practice!

You can use your prop walk to crab sideways as well, but only in the direction of prop walk. Turn your wheel to port and leave it there, then alternate bursts of forward and reverse to crab sideways to port. Gawkers will think you have thrusters!

[CaptJPMcGuire]

Originally Posted by Eder

Dumb question but why not back into your slip?

Lots of good answers. One general one that is consistent and the usual is learn to use the spring line. Not to but spend some time with Chapmans or other book that discusses the use of a spring line. (might even try wikipedia) Don't give up on the spring
The Spring will get you in --the spring can get you out. The spring is your friend when you know how to work with it. With your friend left hanging on the piling you can even get its assistance to back into your slip.

Make a drawing or model of your slip with pilings and cleats---grab a little plastic toy boat of correct proportion --some thread and play "docking master". When you have mastered it and you write down all the tricks ---patent the game --sell it like to game of Monopoly and get rich own hotels on Broadway --hire a crew for your yacht and never fear again. ___|)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Cynara]

Our Hans Christian 34 backs into the wind. So we end up backing down the fairway, between rows of slips several hundred feet

[MicHughV]

hmmmm...I've reversed countless sailboats out of slips and anchorages....fin keel....full keel.....no matter....

The trick is to hold the wheel steady amidships and get some motion going, usually a quick burst of throttle, then neutral.

You need to have water flowing over the rudder, for the rudder to be effective, it doesn't require a lot of motion, but sufficient for the rudder to get a bite.

Then..use only small rudder movements...when moving backwards, the rudder wants to slam one way or the other, so a tight grip on the wheel is needed.....very tight...as the rudder is now the " front" of the boat....

Once the boat is moving, and you have a tight grip on the wheel, you can apply more throttle, and the boat will go where the rudder is pointed. Again...only small motions on the wheel are required, typically, one spoke worth or thereabouts.

Once in the clear, you can give the rudder some more turn, again, keeping a very firm grip, as the rudder will want to get away from you.

Practice in some open water and you'll soon get the hang of it.

Spring lines work great, but are useful only for as long the spring line is tied to the dock. When I'm using a spring line, I will " double" the line...ie, from boat to cleat and back again, once I'm in the clear, I'll pull the spring line around the cleat and back on the boat.

A little practice will have you looking like a pro in no time.

[edlepera]

I highly recommend obtaining lessons from an experience skipper on the use of spring lines and handling a heavy boat. There should be someone in your marina willing to exchange there knowledge for a good dinner out on the town.