Beneteau Oceanis 411 Celebration - Very difficult to go astern marked Propwalk

[sparticle]

Hello,

I have owned my 411 Celebration since 2019. It is an awesome yacht. However, it does have a very challenging characteristic it Prop walks to port hugely when going astern. I am not talking about a small amount. In close confines in the marina it is a nightmare to maneuver.

Today a great example 15Kt wind from the aft PORT QTR tight reverse into my berth which is the typical stern to berth. Distance between the stern of yachts on my pontoon and the bow of the opposite yacht across the channel is tight. These are 10M fingers.

Starting with the yacht at an angle of over 90Deg to the berth. 4 attempts to get the stern to go to STD when going astern by the time we have enough way on to get any steerage to STB the stern is already too far to port. Hard to write this in longhand. But large motor yacht next to me I have to go around his bow in a kind of S maneuver before I can turn the stern to PORT and get into my berth. It really is a 10 on the difficult scale.

I am reaching out to any other 411 owners for any tips or techniques you may have had success with.

Unless there is a reasonable amount of way on then there is no steerage at all to STB and even then only when off the power. The biggest challenge with it is getting the way on in the first place even remotely in the direction you want to be going astern. When in the marina there is limited room to act as a runway to get it to steer to STB going astern.

I have tried the feathering prop technique applying short bursts of power to get it moving then into neutral to stop the wash but with wind from astern and the propwalk to PORT very very challenging. You need a longer runway than I have available for it to recover to STB once you can get it moving astern.

Any articles that relate to this specific boat would be useful if anyone has any or even other owners experiences.

It has a Volvo D2-55 and a Volvo 3 blade folding prop.\

It is a great boat, just very very difficult to maneuver when going astern. Very different to other boats I have had/used over the past 20+ years.


Any constructive advice is appreciated.


Cheers
Spart

[pcmm]

Learn to make the prop walk work FOR you not against you. If the prop walk is to port, you need to think of your maneuvers in such a way that it helps you instead of against you.

the prop you have has a large impact on the amount of prop walk ( folding props suck). In my experience (sample size of 1) the feathering props have much less prop walk than typical fixed blade props.

In my case (long keel Morgan OI, with a LH prop and prop walk in reverse to starboard) I now try to arrange tight quarters maneuvers with a turn to port so that I can go hard over to port on the rudder. gun the engine to force the stat of the turn and then gun in reverse to use the prop walk to help pull the stern to starboard while stopping forward momentum.

I know its not a Benne' but physics are physics. If you can work out your maneuvers to your advantage. things will go easier and you'll look like a pro!

Also don't try to steer with the power on in reverse Use reverse to give you momentum, then back to neutral to not be fighting the walk while steering.

[sparticle]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Learn to make the prop walk work FOR you not against you. If the prop walk is to port, you need to think of your maneuvers in such a way that it helps you instead of against you.

the prop you have has a large impact on the amount of prop walk ( folding props suck). In my experience (sample size of 1) the feathering props have much less prop walk than typical fixed blade props.

In my case (long keel Morgan OI, with a LH prop and prop walk in reverse to starboard) I now try to arrange tight quarters maneuvers with a turn to port so that I can go hard over to port on the rudder. gun the engine to force the stat of the turn and then gun in reverse to use the prop walk to help pull the stern to starboard while stopping forward momentum.

I know its not a Benne' but physics are physics. If you can work out your maneuvers to your advantage. things will go easier and you'll look like a pro!

Also don't try to steer with the power on in reverse Use reverse to give you momentum, then back to neutral to not be fighting the walk while steering.

Thanks, yes I have exactly that a nice turn to port to get into my berth. The challenge is I have to get into the channel to STB and around the motor yacht bow before I can turn to port! I am even considering fitting a bow thruster this winter to assist which is no small job.

Yes as I wrote the challenge is to get enough way on to get steerage and enough momentum to be able to kill the power and carry the maneuver out.

The main issue is have to S turn around the motor yacht bow. When it wasn't there life was good! If only.

Cheers

[4arch]

Start reversing well outside of the marina and reverse all the way into the marina and down the fairway. By the time you get into the fairway you'll have enough reverse momentum to maintain steerage. Don't be shy about going in with a moderate amount of power so that steerage is maintained. Stand facing aft if it helps. You might feel silly at first but if you master the technique it's better than playing bumper boats.

[sparticle]

Originally Posted by 4arch

Start reversing well outside of the marina and reverse all the way into the marina and down the fairway. By the time you get into the fairway you'll have enough reverse momentum to maintain steerage. Don't be shy about going in with a moderate amount of power so that steerage is maintained. Stand facing aft if it helps. You might feel silly at first but if you master the technique it's better than playing bumper boats.

Funnily enough that is what I did initially started out in reverse in the basin and all the way through the marina. I always stand facing the direction of travel.

Sometimes like today a lot of commercial traffic on the outside. So not an option. But good advice. It does look a bit weird but it does work. But today probably wouldn't have made much of a difference as the wind was from astern making life very difficult. Strong enough to stop the rearward progress when off the power.

Like everything, I guess just need to get more practice and comfortable with a little more speed. I like to do things slowly in the marina, at 2 kts easy to arrest the movement 4kts (sweet spot for steerage) not so much and the close confines makes for that extra bit of anxiety.

We have talked about taking a day and going on and off a good few times and trying differing approaches to get more comfortable. But like most of us probably we spend well over 90% of the time sailing the yacht and a very small amount of time maneuvering.

Cheers
Spart

[ohdrinkboy]

I've had to back out of a marina fairway due to prop walk. Have to learn to make it work for you.

[desodave]

You have my sympathies Spart ... my previous boat (H38) had similar characteristics, although without the folding prop. You already have some basics for the turn ... have to be off the power and need way on. Other thing you can do to make the starboard turn in reverse is to give it a shot of power in FORWARD with a quick turn to port WHILE you've got way on in reverse. You have to be smooth and quick but will maintain your way on in reverse, and increase your turn in the right direction. Like you say yourself, maybe a day spent practicing maneuvers instead of sailing might be in order. I hope I've got your directions right ... I've been mentally challenged here putting them together. I had to learn the technique to get around a lengthy boat getting into my slip. Took nerves of steel the first time I tried it for real too !!

[dfelsent]

I tend to avoid marinas. I prefer mooring or anchor. And Moonbeam has plenty of prop walk. We can hold the rudder hard to starboard and by alternating forward and reverse spin in place.
I was in a slip two weeks ago and needed to back out. To go forward down the fairway I would have needed to turn against the prop walk. So I backed down the fairway til I got to a wide spot and spun in place.
Prop walk can be a nightmare or it can be your friend.

I’m glad I don’t have your slip to get in to!

I have spent time practicing in reverse and found it helped me a lot.