Can sailing upwind in 20 knots be fun?

[Caleb C]

Close hauled is how we get where we're going most of the time. However, downwind with the genoa poled out is sure fast and comfy.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Ahhhh----caught em at anchor.

This Response Obviously Lacks Logic

[Barra]

Originally Posted by StuM

This Response Obviously Lacks Logic

[fatherchronica]

Some older light weight boats I had were fun. My present boat it is interesting, but always exhilirating. We have sailed to windward for hours in over 50 kts and into huge breaking seas, and my level of anxiety was greatly minimized because my boat is designed to be able to survive that kind of brutality, and I have a high level of trust. I have been in other boats in the past where I wondered sometimes if they were stout enough for whatever we were in. We sailed to windward for 60 hours in, usually, right around 40 kts. It kicked our, and our dogs, and our cat's asses though, and the exhiliration became monotany and discomfort pretty fast and went on for what seemed like months.

[Scottuk]

Originally Posted by BobLocal60

When reading your description I concur and attempt to do what you described, thanks for spelling it out so well. I learned from crewing on races for a few years while sailing on MWR Marina boats when stationed in Long Beach, Ca... 1986 thru 1990, We had a blast racing a McGregor 65 from Newport to Ensenada and Oakland to Catalina, as well as many series of bouy races in Long Beach on coronado 15's and Wednesday night Catalina 27 races several others as well... it all helps, but you were able to describe it very well.Thanks... I've since cruised the Pensacola bay for years on a Morgan Outisland 41 till Ivan sunke her, then raced our own Catlina 22' (for sail) and S2 9.2A as well as cruised both since 2006, 2013 respectively. Aspirations of more with the S2 soon.

Cheers for that, though your view on my post might be in the minority.

My wife and I did a long caravan holiday in the States a while back starting in the PNW and ending in Florida. While we were staying at the national park near Pensacola I looked online to see if I could get out and race. Sure enough I was out the next day on a passage race so got to see a bit of Pensacola Bay. Very nice!

[CLady]

I LOVE IT!
Of course, having a boat set up right helps, knowing sail trim, and flying off of the top of the swell/waves at the correct angle helps. It is fully invigorating. It becomes less profound the second day and the ante gets upped to continue the "high" from the vibrant experience of sails translating the power of the wind into forward SPEED! It is addictive. Increasing wind velocity of course, is like 'crack' "out there".

C Lady

[Exile]

Originally Posted by StuM

This Response Obviously Lacks Logic

Love it! Why sit inside provoking & agitating on a computer when you could be out on the water putting into practice all the excellent advice & anecdotes offered on this thread?!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Exile

Love it! Why sit inside provoking & agitating on a computer when you could be out on the water putting into practice all the excellent advice & anecdotes offered on this thread?!

Maybe not the best time of year for old Kmac to go out on his Catalina 22 for big wind practice.

They are about to go back down into the 30's and 40's up there. Plus, it probably takes him a while to get out to the wider part of the bay from his location

It's probably best for him and rescue personnel that he "sit inside provoking & agitating on his computer."

[kmacdonald]

Thanks for the concern. My boats still in the water and I hope to get a few more trips in this year.

[suedstern1]

Yes, it can be fun, lots of....
But it depends on wave conditions and - if you are not just out for fun sailing - if you are still able to bake some way to your target.

For me this is true for monos and for cats

Fred

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Sandero

...
If we are wanting to get somewhere sooner rather than later we'll motor sail. I've almost never motored into the wind without the mainsail.
..

It also depends on the boat and being a motorsailor or a sailing yacht with an auxiliary engine. Many sailing boats today have an option for powerfull engines that will give them almost a motor sail ability.

On my boat if I need to get somewhere sooner and the course is directly upwind, like you, I will motorsail with the mainsail up, except if the sea has over 1,5m steep short period waves (med waves) and the wind is lesser than 12k (true).

If the sea is like that and I have enough wind I go faster sailing. The difference will be bigger on worst conditions. On 30k winds 4 m steep short period waves I will be doing about 3k motorsailing at about 15/20º off the apparent wind. I will be doing about 6 k sailing at about 30/35º off the apparent wind.

That would give a VMG motorsailing of just a bit less than 3K and a sailing speed well over 4k.

On those conditions I find the sailing exhilarating ....but just for some hours, if it is for a longer time I would open up the angle to have a much more comfortable ride at the costs of a slower VMG.

Anyway, motorsailing nearer the wind on those conditions it is not more comfortable than sailing, the waves are caught much more frontally and the boat pitches a lot.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by beiland

No, all you had to do was carefully point up just a little higher than them, and at a speed that was just a wee-bit more. Climbed right over them.

You are not obviously talking about doing that to contemporary race boats. Probably old cruiser racers and that is not the same thing.

Have you the pollar speeds for that boat? Probably you have because you are the designer and it is needed for rating purposes.


That is a firefly 26? It seems slower than a Corsair 27 but I believe it has a bigger interior.

[kmacdonald]

From what I've seen most cats have been so overloaded (1000Ah LA battery banks) that they have lost any speed advantage that they might have had over mono hulls. As far as pointing ability, we all know the answer to that one.

[CLady]

--Paul--
Great photos of s/v Valis!
C Lady

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Barra

My my we are a bit touchy arent we??? Maybe your mrs is one of the many cruising ladies who if they are honest dont like excessive heeling either?

If you think im peddling crap so be it - all I can do is relate to those with open minds my experience. Believe it or not - no skin off my nose.

It depends on sea state and the boat design of course but it is true that sailing to wind on our cat in 20 knts TWS my wife has prepared meals while in our previous mono she would grimly sit in cockpit and not budge for anything. Its not just her its alot of female cruisers that hate the heel.

Frankly I think your clutching at straws to try and compare a typical days sailing between islands on the one hand with an Atlantic 57 in conditions just before it flipped!

Beating to weather in sheltered water is one thing, and my wife will cook in those conditions, but usually we will wait till we arrive at our destination. Offshore is different. Often I will roll up the jib to reduce heel and slow the boat down for dinner preparation and eating. Heeling is not the only motion you get when you are going to weather. Even in a big cat the motion is violent and cooking can be dangerous-- the faster you go the harder you fall off the waves. In a smaller cat, you can add the slamming of the bridge deck to the fun.