Chain Versus Rope Scope ?

[zeehag]

north pacific--yes.
only new folks and weekenders use rope rode. long term cruisers use all chain. oh yes--i have seen charterers use rope with chain

[sailorchic34]

Well I'm not new nor a weekender, but I do use mixed chain and rope rode. Just a poor sailorchic. Its not the chain that stops me, its the cost of the windlass. Would love all chain, just that a windlass is so not in my budget. Me hauling a 44# bruce and all chain is so not going to happen...

[wolfenzee]

Iwouldm't be able to afford a windlass and/or all chain. My boat just happened to come with a nice big beautiful bronze windlass (which can be used for rope or chain)and 300' of chain. I personally prefer all chain but would have no problem useing rode.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Well I'm not new nor a weekender, but I do use mixed chain and rope rode. Just a poor sailorchic. Its not the chain that stops me, its the cost of the windlass. Would love all chain, just that a windlass is so not in my budget. Me hauling a 44# bruce and all chain is so not going to happen...

+1 - I have about 10m chain and 100m rope. Never had more than about 30 meters out.

I'd be pleased to have a bow roller to haul my anchor - LOL

I do know that my ground tackle is weekend warrior stuff. I got rid of a 25 kilo anchor for a 15. I couldn't haul the darn thing.

For a serious boat and serious cruising it is hard to argue with the gypsy and all chain.

[NorthPacific]

Zeehag, hope you are referring to anchoring in Coral! I cruise in a mean environment for much longer than most and using a mixed rode has worked well. Carrying 300ft of chain in my 35ft boat is how can I say this! o yes NUTS!

Being safe out their is a combination of many things, having the biggest of everything is never the whole picture.

[engele]

Originally Posted by NorthPacific

Zeehag, hope you are referring to anchoring in Coral! I cruise in a mean environment for much longer than most and using a mixed rode has worked well. Carrying 300ft of chain in my 35ft boat is how can I say this! o yes NUTS!

Being safe out their is a combination of many things, having the biggest of everything is never the whole picture.

Depends on size and grade. 200ft of 1/4" G7 is only 132lbs. That isn't nuts in my view, though it is likely 100lbs heavier until the first time the nylon gets wet. If you have any chain before your nylon, your weight quickly starts to be less relevant, and wet is really not relevant.

I get it that windlasses are expensive, that's fine, it just sucks that people are not more considerate with nylon. If you are going to swing all over the place, set a stern anchor, or move further out.

We used nylon before I bought our windlass, and as a user of both, I still think nylon has no place on a primary anchor unless the anchor is hauled by hand.

[NorthPacific]

3/8 chain pluss bloody big anchor =windlass or you don't anchor often. Water drains from the rode especially after it goes through the windlass. Still hold that their is not one right or wrong way.

I like the way the chain lays out, and when it is down I then can start laying out the rope so that I have as much swinging room as possible. As I said I sail alot and almost every night I am at anchor in a very wild and stormy area. Never come to grief but I never take chances and trust anything man man 100%. I remember anchor watch being part of seamanship back in the day.

[wolfenzee]

I have 300' of 3/8" in the chain locker of my 30' boat and it doesn't cause any problems. Though my boat is about 17,000lbs and was desgingned with chain in mind, so isn't effected as much as if it were a light disp. that is designed for light wiegh gear.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by engele

I get it that windlasses are expensive, that's fine, it just sucks that people are not more considerate with nylon. If you are going to swing all over the place, set a stern anchor, or move further out.

I hope you don't mean to imply that if I'm happily anchored in some quiet cove with my nylon rode and adequate scope and you come along at 7 pm and drop your hook with your chain all chain rode with 3:1 scope next to me, I should either set a stern anchor or move farther out! In this situation, the responsibility to keep clear is yours. It just sucks that people are not more considerate with chain.

[SailFastTri]

As a trimaran owner, I'm limited to a mixed rode.... I don't want to add the excess weight of all-chain because it would kill the excellent sailing performance that was designed into the boat. Monohulls with full bows have more tolerance, because great sailing performance was already ruled out by the designer.

OK now that I've angered more than half the readers I'll admit that everything the all-chain proponents state about chafe and cut-resistance is true. As for holding, it's well documented by engineers that scope rules, and catenary is only a holding factor in light winds (when holding isn't much of an issue) and deep water.

The #2 big down-side of rope (not quite as bad as cut/chafe issues, but even more likely to happen where I sail) is that when the wind dies, boats on rope will meander aimlessly with light breezes and current. All the boats that are on chain will stay put wherever they are, but the rope rode boats are no longer lined up so are likely to collide with neighbors. If they're on a Danforth-type anchor (including Fortress) they might just drift over their anchors and unset them too.

My solution to #2 is that I try to anchor only in shallow areas especially when the anchorage is crowded. I use 40 feet of 5/16" chain so if I'm in ~10 feet or less of water we can use 5:1 scope with very limited rope out, and our drifting bahavior is similar to the all-chain neighbors. I have over 200 feet of nylon brait in reserve, just in case.

PS -- I don't agree with the poster who suggested a stern anchor as a solution to this. In a wind shift, the lone stern-anchored boat won't swing with the other boats.

[engele]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

As a trimaran owner, I'm limited to a mixed rode.... I don't want to add the excess weight of all-chain because it would kill the excellent sailing performance that was designed into the boat. Monohulls with full bows have more tolerance, because great sailing performance was already ruled out by the designer.

OK now that I've angered more than half the readers I'll admit that everything the all-chain proponents state about chafe and cut-resistance is true. As for holding, it's well documented by engineers that scope rules, and catenary is only a holding factor in light winds (when holding isn't much of an issue) and deep water.

The #2 big down-side of rope (not quite as bad as cut/chafe issues, but even more likely to happen where I sail) is that when the wind dies, boats on rope will meander aimlessly with light breezes and current. All the boats that are on chain will stay put wherever they are, but the rope rode boats are no longer lined up so are likely to collide with neighbors. If they're on a Danforth-type anchor (including Fortress) they might just drift over their anchors and unset them too.

My solution to #2 is that I try to anchor only in shallow areas especially when the anchorage is crowded. I use 40 feet of 5/16" chain so if I'm in ~10 feet or less of water we can use 5:1 scope with very limited rope out, and our drifting bahavior is similar to the all-chain neighbors. I have over 200 feet of nylon brait in reserve, just in case.

PS -- I don't agree with the poster who suggested a stern anchor as a solution to this. In a wind shift, the lone stern-anchored boat won't swing with the other boats.

Totally reasonable in my opinion.

[engele]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

I hope you don't mean to imply that if I'm happily anchored in some quiet cove with my nylon rode and adequate scope and you come along at 7 pm and drop your hook with your chain all chain rode with 3:1 scope next to me, I should either set a stern anchor or move farther out! In this situation, the responsibility to keep clear is yours. It just sucks that people are not more considerate with chain.

Nope, if you are anchored on nylon and I come in after, I need to allow for your scope. With an entire bay at most times there is no reason to be too close. It's when there is limited space that things become an issue.

That said the nylon guys tend to anchor closer in, by a lot. Your scope should be determined by where you are, we have laid out 200' in 6' of water where there was poor holding, and also have dropped 3:1 in calm conditions where there is good holding or on a narrow shelf without other options.

If you are the guy heading into the only protection and shallow water for 150 miles along the coast and putting out 8:1 scope on nylon at the only place anyone can sleep with a good weather forecast, then you are not considerate.

Assuming anyone is on 3:1 is not considerate.

[NorthPacific]

^ Yip havent we all seen that! Agree with the rational

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by engele

Nope, if you are anchored on nylon and I come in after, I need to allow for your scope. With an entire bay at most times there is no reason to be too close. It's when there is limited space that things become an issue.

That said the nylon guys tend to anchor closer in, by a lot. Your scope should be determined by where you are, we have laid out 200' in 6' of water where there was poor holding, and also have dropped 3:1 in calm conditions where there is good holding or on a narrow shelf without other options.

If you are the guy heading into the only protection and shallow water for 150 miles along the coast and putting out 8:1 scope on nylon at the only place anyone can sleep with a good weather forecast, then you are not considerate.

Assuming anyone is on 3:1 is not considerate.

200' in 6' of water is not reasonable or considerate. If your anchor won't set and only your chain will hold, you aren't really anchored and need to find another place (or a better anchor). Anything beyond 7:1 is not significantly better, if you have a set.

[engele]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

200' in 6' of water is not reasonable or considerate. If your anchor won't set and only your chain will hold, you aren't really anchored and need to find another place (or a better anchor). Anything beyond 7:1 is not significantly better, if you have a set.

You can't always choose. If you want to be in Barra in wind, you do what it takes (as does everyone else), we set with 70' and were advised to let out as much as we ha room for.