Corbin 39 Mk I helm balancing act

[lagunafreak]

Ahoy all!

Not sure if this is the right forum. If not, please excuse my stumble.

I've been lurking here for a little over a year. My co-Cap't and I have our eye on purchasing a Corbin 39. I've read all about the factory -vs- owner finished boat/joinery so we are going in with eyes wide open. Plus, I was a cabinet maker/finish carpenter in a previous life. I've pretty much searched all of the Corbin 39 threads on CF to no avail.

I am pretty adamant that I want nothing to do with a bow sprit; anchor bridles, higher marina fees, additional hull penetrations, bob stay, etc. So, MkII is a low priority on our shopping list. Though I would think the forward mast step of the MkII helpful.

Our question for the collective wisdom of CF arises from my tendency to believe that Dufour/Corbin would not design a boat (MkI) that is incapable of helm balance on all angles of heel to weather. Moving the dynamic CE:CLR relationship does not seem like rocket science to me. As such we are hoping for some helpful sailplan info that will best balance the helm of the Corbin 39 MkI. As an example, I have read of one Corbin 39 sailor whose sailmaker told him to shorten the foot of his main by 3 feet. He did so and bought a shorter boom too. He reports this worked well.

I am inclined to think there is an optimum heads'l and stays'l cut that will effectively move the CE adequately closer to the CLR on all angles of heel to weather with her heavy ballast to displacement and without cutting down the foot of the mains'l and boom. In general, this discussion is relevant to the 51 foot mast. Not sure I want the 46 foot shorty. But am open to all good ideas.

Thoughts?

Help please!

And thank you!

[MartinR]

Did I understand this right? You plan to buy a boat that you know is unbalanced by design?

I have never sailed any cruising monohull that is balanced on all angles of heel. That is almost impossible to achieve. Long and narrow does better of course. Long keels also. Normally, when the angle of heel increases too much you would reef the main, and that moves the CE forward.

Sail cut affects this, but if the boat is badly unbalanced, recutting the sails will not suffice.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, lagunafreak.


Corbin 39 Sailboat Owners Group
➥ http://www.corbin39.com/corbin39sitesearch.html
➥ http://www.corbin39.com/
See slso ➥ http://www.canadianyachting.ca/boat-...il-boat-review

[Tetepare]

[QUOTE=MartinR;2898078]

I have never sailed any cruising monohull that is balanced on all angles of heel. That is almost impossible to achieve. /QUOTE]

This.

The the term used should be “suboptimally balanced” not “unbalanced”. My boat is suboptimally balanced for some conditions.

There is substantial discussion of this “balance crisis” about the Corbin on the internet. I think it’s over rated and know a mk1 that’s sailed up and down the east coast and Caribbean.

If the Corbin warrants criticism it’s for the size and ergonomics of the cockpit. IMHO that is offset by the aircraft carrier size deck and rock solid hull. Wife disagrees and that’s why we don’t have the Corbin I had my heart set on after years of research and searching.

[urantia]

Go to my web site for Corbin Urantia for sale
Accueil

[lagunafreak]

Thank you all for the feedback.

My statement re; achieving balance on all angles of heel is admittedly not the best choice of words. However, with proper sail trim there should be a sailplan that gets close, IMO.

Yes, I am planning to purchase a boat that has a reputation for weather helm issues. All boats are a collection of compromises. Of course, we will gain ample exposure to make a well-informed decision. Which is why I asked the question of the CF brain-trust.

To be more specific, I am inclined to think the C39 MkI weather helm reports are likely exaggerated and primarily due to inadequate lift in the sailplan fore of the mast. I have a number of reasons for suspecting this cause. Not the least of which is the mast appears to me to be near ideally placed for a cutter and, in light of the trend to large overlapping genoas that were the heads'l rage in the '80's and continues to some extent today, it seems to me fashion/fad may have induced an aft movement of the CE relative to CLR. I suspect the C39 was designed to fly a substantially different sailplan and am waiting to learn what may be gleaned from those with far more practical experience than I have.

Please continue...

[Jubilee39]

I have a 1981 hull Corbin39 the I set up as a ketch rig but with the tall mast and bowsprit. Admittedly I do not get much use out of the mizzen but I find it very well balanced on all points of sail. I have had the autopilot fail and not notice it for quite some time as it stay on track. I have sailed East coast of US up and down the eastern Caribbean and across the Pacific, I have hove to in several gales and just furling the sails and putting the helm up she rode comfortably. I experience very little current drain with the autopilot.
Don't know about the cutters though.

[Paul Howard]

As the original writer of the above posted Canadian Yachting review of the Corbin 39, first published in the Winter, 1996 issue as my regular column reviewing second hand boats, (the posted article is as reprinted and published in a compendium and posted on their website without my permission and slightly edited by a less than knowledgeable sailing writer). I was very familiar with these boats and the two mentioned owners were good friends of mine. Terry F's Corbin 39 was the best outfitted and had the best exterior finish of any of them. He was a keen sailor and the described modifications in the article did make a great difference to the helm balance and the sailing performance. It was well worth the expense.

[GRIT]

Having crossed the Atlantic, both ways, on our Mk1 Corbin 39, I feel qualified to comment.

We sailed on autopilot, and on windvane, and the boat performed predictably at all times. Yes, they do have more weather helm than some boats, but it was never a problem.

If you have an issue, especially on windvane, then reef the mainsail, and you'll be fine.

We were equipped with a 110% genoa, a 100% jib, and a staysail on a boom.

We used the jib for ocean work, and the genoa for near shore cruising.

We really loved that boat, but were infected with "two foot itis" which quickly progressed to "two hull itis", which led to complications... Now we're preparing to finally launch our 15m Cat.

Buy the mk 1, you'll not regret it.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Scaramanga F25]

Unfortunately, with first hand knowledge, the Corbin 39 is a very solidly built boat, but has severe on the deck gel-coat cracking and is a very poor design from a relatively unknown designer.

[lagunafreak]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Unfortunately, with first hand knowledge, the Corbin 39 is a very solidly built boat, but has severe on the deck gel-coat cracking and is a very poor design from a relatively unknown designer.

Would you please elaborate on your assessment re; design and gelcoat?

I am aware of the 'very thick gelcoat' issue on the deck and have read numerous accounts and remedies. Some effective, others not so much. The results of my research cause me only minimal concern as applied generally to the entire fleet. Individual specimens may be better or worse than the average. After all, this is an aged fleet...

[lagunafreak]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Having crossed the Atlantic, both ways, on our Mk1 Corbin 39, I feel qualified to comment.

We sailed on autopilot, and on windvane, and the boat performed predictably at all times. Yes, they do have more weather helm than some boats, but it was never a problem.

If you have an issue, especially on windvane, then reef the mainsail, and you'll be fine.

We were equipped with a 110% genoa, a 100% jib, and a staysail on a boom.

We used the jib for ocean work, and the genoa for near shore cruising.

We really loved that boat, but were infected with "two foot itis" which quickly progressed to "two hull itis", which led to complications... Now we're preparing to finally launch our 15m Cat.

Buy the mk 1, you'll not regret it.

Cheers.
Paul.

GRIT, What was the mast height on your MkI? Would you say you loaded her heavy to stern to assist in moving CLR astern or no? In regard to loading, what engine size/weight did you have and drive, shaft or saildrive?

Thank you!

[GRIT]

Thanks for your inquiry.

We had the shorter rig, and did not intentionally load the boat in any particular manner, regards CLR. We tried to keep the weight centred, as many folks do.

We had a shaft drive, Pathfinder engine, located directly below the front pilothouse windows; a 200l water tank under the forward berth; 300 feet of 5/16 chain, and a 66 lb Bruce anchor at the bow; tools, workshop, and spare parts under the cockpit; Fuel tanks on each side of the pilothouse, below the side windows.

The batteries were located in their own boxes, under the forward part of the pilot house floor, 600ah total.

Head, shower, and holding tank were in the pilot house, aft.

I would strongly disagree with the Scaramanga, who said it was a poor design. I suggest his "first hand knowledge" might have been that he saw one on a dock once, or went for a daysail in one, in light air. We put over 20,000 miles on ours, and I'd say she was certainly built, and designed, for cruising shorthanded.

I personally love flush decks, and boats with Rubenesque rear ends. She really took us through some crap weather, and seas. Many times we'd hear folks complaining about how rough the seas were, and how they were having to slow down, or turn around due to the sea state. Meanwhile, we were only a short ways away, and were quite content with carrying on to our destination.

She's not fast in the light stuff, but she'll carry on when many others won't.

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

As a short addendum to my previous post.

The weather helm on our Corbin 39 was not an issue, either for the autopilot, or the Aries windvane, until/unless there were strong gusts of 30 knots or so. If the wind was steady, then we'd simply trim for a neutral helm, and carry on. In heavy gusts, the weather helm would show, and we'd shorten sail to account for it, and carry on.

If an Aries windvane can steer a boat without a problem, then the weather helm is not excessive.

We used our Aries about half the time, and mostly in heavier weather.

Granted, we are conservative sailors, and calculated for 100 miles per day for longer trips, and were seldom off by much. I did have one 16 hour period where I clocked 120 miles, using the windvane, but I was single handing and pushing the boat in 25 knots, steady from the East, to Grand Bahama from Nassau.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Cheechako]

I haven't sailed a Corbin, but many boats have weather helm and on some in certain weather and other conditions it is very strong wx helm. A ton of Bill Garden designed boats are that way. I have sailed several of those and they were all quite similar. So it's hard to assess the Corbin situation from afar. Moving the mast forward, eliminating mainsail roach, foot or shape should help the situation, especially if you don't want a bowsprit. I tend to like a bit of bowsprit for anchor holding etc and I added a short sprit to my Garden 30 which improved the helm some.. and was my first offshore boat.
Some boats create wx helm when heeled due to hull shape issues. These are often beamy boats with underwater shapes that aren't well balanced fore and aft. But Garden designs (and visually I wouldn't think the Corbin) are not that issue.