Crew Management -- Medium Sized Crew

[Dockhead]

We are about to start our Atlantic crossing and I'm finding it harder than I expected to work out the right watch schedule and division of functions. We have the same size crew as during our summer racing -- 5 -- but it's a different mix of skills and different job completely.


For our summer long distance racing, we had four in the watch schedule on 3 hour watches while I as the skipper pinch hit where needed and did navigation, tactics, etc. This worked well.


But now we're not racing and we'll be mostly out of high traffic areas. A much bigger part of the job will be managing the galley and provisions.


We were at sea for just over a week for our long distance race, and the galley was a mess. The refrigeration was stuffed with food and no one ever really knew what we had until it went bad. Half used packages of things got forgotten and went bad. This is now twice as long and a still much bigger challenge and I don't want the mess we had during the summer.


Another challenge we have is that two of our crew are not sailors. They are professional seamen, energtic, diligent, smart people but know little about sailing. I did teach one of them to sail in Singapore a couple of years ago, and he was learning fast, but it's little in the way of experience. So someone will need to be backing them up for sail trimming, sail handling, etc.


Lastly far offshore watchkeeping becomes less involved -- basically lookout per the Colregs.


So how to manage all this? I would be really grateful for tips from more experienced ocean crossers.


I have a few thoughts and questions:


1. Someone should be the czar of the galley, should keep an inventory of provisions, should make damn sure that food gets used efficiently and packages get used up once opened, should oversee the meal plan and cooking schedule. Perhaps this job is so important that this person should be out of the watch schedule?


2. Learned from experience that crew should take most meals together, on a fixed schedule. So I think we'll have a meal plan and we will all take turns cooking. Good news is everyone in the crew without exception likes cooking and is decent at it. So I think this will even be a fun part of the crossing if well managed.


3. How best to deal with the two non-sailors? Give them day watches only when it's easier to find backup? When sails are easier to see? In that case, maybe I take one night watch myself. One of these guys is a professional engineer; maybe that guy should have one less watch to leave more time for fixing things.



4. Is there any point to making day watches longer than night watches? The day watches on this passage should be much easier -- we're not racing, people will be awake and available to help.


Grateful for any tips!

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have a few thoughts and questions:


1. Someone should be the czar of the galley...

I think yes. When it's 'everyone's job' it becomes 'nobody's job'. Maybe you can't (or don't want) to have them totally out of the watchkeeping system but possibly they can be on less or easier watches especially if they are doing more of the cooking too.


2. Learned from experience that crew should take most meals together, on a fixed schedule.

I totally agree. In the past this seemed to work out as an early dinner as the main meal together each day, when it was still daylight, before everyone settled in for the night.


3. How best to deal with the two non-sailors? Give them day watches only when it's easier to find backup? When sails are easier to see? In that case, maybe I take one night watch myself. One of these guys is a professional engineer; maybe that guy should have one less watch to leave more time for fixing things.

That sounds reasonable, for a start, until everyone finds their feet. You will have a jump down the coast or to the Canaries or Cape Verde first won't you, to trial run everything and everyone?

4. Is there any point to making day watches longer than night watches? The day watches on this passage should be much easier -- we're not racing, people will be awake and available to help.

I've done both. I think there are pros and cons to both and I think the final answer about which works better depends on the actual crew you have.

One one Atlantic crossing from the Caribbean to Europe via the Azores, one crew member was a publican - he just couldn't sleep at night so we changed up our schedule so he could do most of the night watch - basically a double shift. That was when he was 'awake and alert' - so it worked out best that way.

So I think you need to be able to be flexible if needs be.

Grateful for any tips!

Some thoughts above in red for you. All the best, cheers

[StuM]

In your situation I'd go with two watches with yourself as floater/naviguesser/galley chief.
Havee the two "non-sailors" on opposite watches.


Personally, I like a Modified Swedish Watch schedule where watches rotate daily.


1200 - 1800 (6 hrs)
1800 - 2300 (5 hrs)
2300 - 0300 (4 hrs)
0300 - 0600 (3 hrs)
0600 - 1200 (6 hrs)

(That answers your question about day watches being longer )


When you have two on watch, they can rotate themselves by mutual agreement with one actually on watch/helm/lookout and the other on standby/assisting meal prep/cleanup/maintenance etc and relaxing when he has no specific tasks.



Make at least the evening meal fixed around the 1800 changeover. That means that a different watch gets either prep or cheanup each day.
Other meals can be more flexible depending on crew preferences.

[Dave_S]

Only very little experience with this but I would like to say, on an unrelated subject, I used to drive all over Australia towing cars on a trailer and Australia is a big place. If I left with a set distance to travel before I'd stop (i.e. I'll stop at XYZ town) I would only get part of the way there before I'd get tired. I changed strategy to - once I get tired I'll stop. I'd usually make it all the way in one run because of that change.

It isn't as easy to apply this in this instance with 5 people and people won't want to wake the next keeper early etc. But maybe if you talk as a group and decide that this is more than ok with everyone, in fact it is expected. I think if you have the right people this might work.

If I was in the group, I would want to know the guy on watch would call it if they weren't on top of it so I'd do the same. On the other side of I am wide awake and enjoying myself I'd be quite happy to extend my time. Maybe set a guideline time?, the problem is if people see the others clocking on and off at the regimented time they will feel pressure to do the same. You just have to make sure there is no one over doing it and no one who doesn't like the arrangement. Like I said not easy, but if everyone wants it to work. I think it will. When I have sailed non stop we have done 3hr on 3hr off at night and then however it worked out during the day. It worked ok and we slept during the day when we got tired.

Just a thought....

[Tupaia]

Just some observations, we rarely sail with crew and never more than 3 on board.

Rotating watches is good for morale.
Whoever cooks washes up.
Use conservative sail plans when inexperienced crew are on watch and set wind limits to wake you up.
Longer watches encourage crew to be more responsible. Short watches mean that things can be ignored until the next watch. A problem at the beginning of a long watch is more likely to be reported.

[stormalong]

You have it easy. I've never had more than three including me when crossing oceans.

We did three on, six off - nine hour cycle time so no one is always stuck on the same watch. Each gets there share of sunrises and sunsets. Everyone gets six hours off to sleep or whatever.

With five aboard the captain should not stand a watch so free to manage boat. Work out a schedule for four so watch times change daily.

A few rules:

1) On watch is restricted to cockpit and below. No one leaves cockpit for ANY reason without notifying the next person on watch. Too many crew have woken up to find watch crew missing with no clue what happened. It has happened to very experienced sailors.

2) When in doubt wake the captain. Any issue, any time.

3) I use kitchen a timer set for fifteen minutes. Timer goes off take a good look around. In settled weather a good look is a slow look around. In rough or poor visibility the radar comes on. Never had AIS back then. It is a great advancement but under no circumstances can you be sure that everything that you can hit has AIS.

4) Sunrise watch makes the bread. It takes about three hours for the dough to rise and there is nothing like fresh bread mid ocean.

The Canaries to Caribbean route is often squally conditions. Set up your sail plan so that you can reduce sail quickly. If you are poling out a jib set it up so you can furl the jib from the cockpit without touching the pole. Make sure all crew know how to furl the jib. It is the fastest way to reduce sail area. Once you have made the turn west you don't need a full main. Always sail with at least one reef.

[mvweebles]

A couple long deliveries I did had 5 persons (California to Florida). Having a dedicated cook is definitely nice, though need to be clear crew are responsible for their own cleanup. I always had a crock pot aboard so folks could graze based on their watch schedule. Single meal tended to be mid/late afternoon - much later interfered with off-watch getting last naps prior to evening watch. Meals were always a highlight of the day.

I'd put inexperienced crew on watches where there is likely to be folks awake. Over time, it evens out with that many people aboard and even at night there's almost always additional crew awake chit chatting with the on-watch. Also, might consider putting weakest crew right after your best crew - strong crew will often extend their watch and reduce impact on green crew as they come up to speed. I know it places a burden on your best crew, but that's part of their job.

As captain, on long deliveries, I tried to reduce my watch standing responsibilities because I was constantly awakened. Never seemed to work the way I wanted.

I preferred fixed watch schedules instead of rotating schedules. Though I add that 7-day runs were the longest I did with many in the 5-day range. I felt the predictable schedule helped get into the rhythm of a passage. For the most part, crew didn't seem to care. They just wanted to know their responsibilities. With 5 people aboard, it will even out.

Slightly off topic, but I had only a few rules as captain beyond the obvious. No locker room or trash talk. No alcohol onboard. No politics/religion.

Good luck

Peter

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

No alcohol onboard.

Good luck

Peter

Definitely second the no alcohol usage on passage.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Definitely second the no alcohol usage on passage.

I have my whole sailing life kept a dry ship whilst underway, like my father before me. The owner of this vessel has different ideas, and it's his boat. We'll see.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We are about to start our Atlantic crossing and I'm finding it harder than I expected to work out the right watch schedule and division of functions. We have the same size crew as during our summer racing -- 5 -- but it's a different mix of skills and different job completely.


For our summer long distance racing, we had four in the watch schedule on 3 hour watches while I as the skipper pinch hit where needed and did navigation, tactics, etc. This worked well.


But now we're not racing and we'll be mostly out of high traffic areas. A much bigger part of the job will be managing the galley and provisions.


We were at sea for just over a week for our long distance race, and the galley was a mess. The refrigeration was stuffed with food and no one ever really knew what we had until it went bad. Half used packages of things got forgotten and went bad. This is now twice as long and a still much bigger challenge and I don't want the mess we had during the summer.


Another challenge we have is that two of our crew are not sailors. They are professional seamen, energtic, diligent, smart people but know little about sailing. I did teach one of them to sail in Singapore a couple of years ago, and he was learning fast, but it's little in the way of experience. So someone will need to be backing them up for sail trimming, sail handling, etc.


Lastly far offshore watchkeeping becomes less involved -- basically lookout per the Colregs.


So how to manage all this? I would be really grateful for tips from more experienced ocean crossers.


I have a few thoughts and questions:


1. Someone should be the czar of the galley, should keep an inventory of provisions, should make damn sure that food gets used efficiently and packages get used up once opened, should oversee the meal plan and cooking schedule. Perhaps this job is so important that this person should be out of the watch schedule?
Having "Head Cook" is a good idea. He/she (no discrimination here) should keep keep an excel sheet with all the major items in the fridge etc. Cross off as they are used, keep ahead of the game so if something needs to be used it will be. Head cook does not have to cook all the meals, jsut keep track.


2. Learned from experience that crew should take most meals together, on a fixed schedule. So I think we'll have a meal plan and we will all take turns cooking. Good news is everyone in the crew without exception likes cooking and is decent at it. So I think this will even be a fun part of the crossing if well managed.

You should have fixed meal times. Best for crew and best for whoever is cooking


3. How best to deal with the two non-sailors? Give them day watches only when it's easier to find backup? When sails are easier to see? In that case, maybe I take one night watch myself. One of these guys is a professional engineer; maybe that guy should have one less watch to leave more time for fixing things.

I'd mix the "non-sailors" with the experienced ones.
Especially at night since that means there is always someone to talk to and make coffee etc. Daytime watches I'd have only one person on watch.
Why? There will always be someone awake and in the cockpit to help if necessary. No need for double watchkeepers during daylight. Evenings and nights I prefer to have five hour watches if there is enough crew. Five hours is fine if you have someone to talk to.



4. Is there any point to making day watches longer than night watches? The day watches on this passage should be much easier -- we're not racing, people will be awake and available to help.

See above - during daylight there will always be someone awake.


Grateful for any tips!

Someone up above mentioned that if you are poling out then you should be able to reef the genua(jib) from the cockpit. I wholeheartedly agree with this. When we run into squalls, we reduce sail by rolling in the genua. This takes only a few seconds and the boat is immediately back under control

One thing you should probably think about - you aren't racing and that means that you will not be tweaking the sails every few minutes (seconds) You will set them and unless the wind changes drastically
you'll leave them where they are. You'll also be on autopilot so there is very little for the crew on watch to do unless a squall shows up - you won't see much traffic out there.

Dockhead, we've sailed together a few times and you know my thoughts on alcohol while at sea. Not on. If the owner insists that drinking is allowed then I'd suggest that you see if you can get him to agree that 1 glass of wine or beer in the evening is the limit.

I remember reading an account of one of the first Whitbread around the World Race. This was back in the day when the participants were moneyed amatuers that raced their own large yachts. One of the owners had trouble deciding just how much wine he should provision and finally decided that 1 bottle per man per day simply had to be enough.

In that huge barge you're going to be crossing in (67 feet) the trip won't take you more than 2 weeks - so you shouldn't have food go bad on you.

[dougweibel]

I've never had crew as large as five so maybe it would work but I disagree with the idea of taking most meals together. Definitely take your evening meal together. Lunch optionally. Breakfast - no. Too easy to get a bit of quality sleep at that time of day for those who had late night watches. Getting adequate sleep is way more important than seeing the crew all together three times a day.

[donradcliffe]

If you have a good cook, they don't stand a regular watch, and neither does the captain. The other three go on a 3 on 6 off schedule. All crew need a minimum of 4 hours rest in one stretch at least once per day. The captain (or the cook, if experienced) watches with the inexperienced crew until they are trained. The next person up gets woken early if needed, but try to do major sail handling such as reefing or gybing at the watch changes

One hot dinner meal is taken together. More than that is too disruptive to sleep cycles, and never wake anyone for the dinner.

One glass of wine or bottle of beer with dinner in fine weather only.

No one goes out of the cockpit if they are alone on watch.

No yelling at the crew.

[Shrew]

Cater to peoples strengths. If you have non-sailors and a problem with the galley and stores, you've sort of solved your own problem there.

[psk125]

We like having two hands on watch in a staggered rotating schedule. It has worked well for us returning from Bermuda and other long-haul trips, though having six aboard is better than five. The five crew would go on duty in a set order: A,B,C,D,E, for four hour watches. For example to start things off, A begins his watch at noon with E. B comes on at 1400 and E goes off, to get the rotation started. C comes on at 1600, and A goes off. D comes on at 1800 and B goes off. E returns at 2000, and C goes off. A returns at 2200 and D goes off. This gives each crew four hours on and six hours off, round the clock. Depending upon conditions, a mealtime watch stander could be designated cook, or someone else who was well-rested could prepare meals. Sharing the watch with two different people makes it more interesting and allows the better crew to get paired with the less experienced. Everyone seems to get enough rest, and the new crew coming up every two hours keeps the watch alert. Changing the length of the watches, à la Swedish system, would be more complicated but might also work well.

[GreenWave]

I was just about to suggest something very similar to the previous post. With 5 crew you can/should always have two people on, that way exiting the cockpit by one isn't danger danger. Also, I agree with some others that the one meal all together is probably best accomplished with a just before sunset dinner.