Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

[justwaiting]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

I find that case to be very interesting. Apparently one of the Central American Countries sent a deputation to the hearing on who owns the gold. They claimed that it belong to them as it was their country that was invaded, their people who were stolen from, and their people forced to mine it for the Spaniards. They were denied.

Go figure.

Hardly suprising, there is a legal saying that it is more important for the law to be certain than just. If they allowed the claim of those countries it would bring in to question the ownership of assets worldwide that would tie up the courts for the next thousand years. What most courts will do is to go back to the first recognised ownership under european law no further. As some one who has worked on Native Title claims in Oz i can tell you that societies protect there own. Any further and we would be drifting into politics.

Back on subject (sort of)

The ships bell would have made a nice centre peice for a momorial to those who lost their lives as a result of ego and negligence of the Captain and the policies of Costa that condoned, if not criminaly encouraged, risk taking over prudent seamanship.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

I find that case to be very interesting. Apparently one of the Central American Countries sent a deputation to the hearing on who owns the gold. They claimed that it belong to them as it was their country that was invaded, their people who were stolen from, and their people forced to mine it for the Spaniards. They were denied.

Go figure.

I think what happened their was that the "people" had no sovereign dominion over the gold which the spaniards did once there'd mined it (or oversaw the mining of) - it's back to the concept of not owning virgin territory unless you "work it" somehow - till the land as it were. Being a tribe in the region of natural resources doesn't necessarily give you ownership over natural resources unless you stake claim, farm, mine or cultivate them in some way - as is the basis of modern law.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

The ships bell would have made a nice centre peice for a momorial to those who lost their lives ...

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

I think what happened their was that the "people" had no sovereign dominion over the gold which the spaniards did once there'd mined it (or oversaw the mining of) - it's back to the concept of not owning virgin territory unless you "work it" somehow - till the land as it were. Being a tribe in the region of natural resources doesn't necessarily give you ownership over natural resources unless you stake claim, farm, mine or cultivate them in some way - as is the basis of modern law.

This would be a great thread on it's own but not for here on CF cause of the rules and all.

But I think they were "mining" the gold long before it was taken to Spain - or almost there anyway............

PS If I find some I ain't tellin' no one. UH-uh. Nope.

[Astrid]

Being a tribe in the region of natural resources doesn't necessarily give you ownership over natural resources unless you stake claim, farm, mine or cultivate them in some way - as is the basis of modern law.

...unless you have something akin to the Inter caetera bull issued by Pope Alexander Borgia to the twin kingdoms of Aragon and Castile which in effect nullified any claim by indigenous peoples to lands and resources they had already worked.

[Cavalier]

Therapy & Astrid,

You're both right in pointing out that a certain papal state's treatment of John Locke's second treatise has been disregarded throughout history in the name of gold.

That said, nabbing a bell off a vessel without salvage license is just plain theft... (there, forum rules satisfied ;-) )

[captain465]

Whoa!!!!!!!
This thread is about the unfortunate circumstance of the COSTA CONCORDIA.......getting into the situation of the Spanish treasures and the resulting arguments between countries, about a situation that occured many years ago, and under very different circumstances, is just plain BS. Let's just stick to the modernday situation and go from there......the capatain just got to damn close to the rocks and did not conduct himself as a professional both before and after the incident.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by captain465

Whoa!!!!!!!
This thread is about the unfortunate circumstance of the COSTA CONCORDIA.......getting into the situation of the Spanish treasures and the resulting arguments between countries, about a situation that occured many years ago, and under very different circumstances, is just plain BS. Let's just stick to the modernday situation and go from there......the capatain just got to damn close to the rocks and did not conduct himself as a professional both before and after the incident.

Though, you have to admit, starting out with a showman skipper without his glasses who ploughed a cruise ship into a reef and ending up with Pope Alexander Borgia and the twin kingdoms of Aragon and Castile is quite an epic thread! It's just a shame that so much attention wasn't paid by the Captain prior to the incident thereby sparing the lives of those who were lost: rest their souls.

[JoeDiver]

Originally Posted by captain465

Whoa!!!!!!!
This thread is about the unfortunate circumstance of the COSTA CONCORDIA.......getting into the situation of the Spanish treasures and the resulting arguments between countries, about a situation that occured many years ago, and under very different circumstances, is just plain BS. Let's just stick to the modernday situation and go from there......

LOL...wow....I never intended such a reaction from adding a color comment to the "sunken ships" being owned....just a one liner about the recent (2012) event of the Black Swan Project.

[Dreaming Yachtsman]

Originally Posted by JoeDiver

LOL...wow....I never intended such a reaction from adding a color comment to the "sunken ships" being owned....just a one liner about the recent (2012) event of the Black Swan Project.

Yes, you MUST be VERY CAREFUL about thread drift on CF!!! There are a precious few members who really care about it and a miniscule number who actually get upset about it. The issue has been thrashed to death on other discussion threads so . . . back to you're regular programming.

[St. Elsewhere]

The tanks are now empty (meaning that fuel and waste have been removed) . . . .

Name: COSTA CONCORDIA Costa Concordia - Type of ship: Passenger ship - Callsign: IBHD - vesseltracker.com
IMO: 9320544
Time: 22-03-2012 12:41:05 UTC

NEWS:
Draining the fuel off the "Costa Concordia“ has been completed by Mar 22, 2012, announced the mayor of Giglio, Sergio Ortelli, during a press conference in Florence. 2300 tons bunker fuel have been pumped off.

[St. Elsewhere]

Five more bodies recovered. Just two remain missing.

More details here.

[St. Elsewhere]

I think that this means that Smit has completed fuel removal, and now has an additional assignment to remove miscellaneous debris from the sea floor. It seems that they have not yet awarded the salvage contract to remove the wreckage . . .

Name: COSTA CONCORDIA Costa Concordia - Type of ship: Passenger ship - Callsign: IBHD - vesseltracker.com
IMO: 9320544
Time: 23-03-2012 20:29:39 UTC

NEWS:
Operations to remove fuel from the "Costa Concordia" should end in the night of Mar 24. The final operations conducted by technicians from the companies Smit Salvage and Neri lasted the entire day; once they are concluded and a plan to remove the vessel is defined, the care taking phase to clear the sea floor of debris will begin. This phase could last 30 to 60 days and will also be handled by Smit Salvage in collaboration with Tito Neri, both hired by Costa Crociere. Eight vessels will be used, including ships with equipment to purify the water, as well as various containter, cranes, rubber dinghy's and a team of 42 people. The operation should guarantee the environmental protection needed in the "Costa Concordia" area. On Feb 23 the activity of vigilance and naval assistance proceeded as usual, 24 hours a day, by the authorities' naval units around the sunken vessel, with port authority divers monitoring the markers positioned on the "Costa Concordia" to register its movements.

[harborcruiser]

disaster...

[St. Elsewhere]

Costa Concordia will be re-floated, and towed away in one piece. 10 salvage companies examined the project. Six of them submitted proposals, and one has been selected. The winner will be announced about mid April, and work is expected to start in May. More information is here.