Docking stern-to in crosswind

[wholybee]

This isn't much different than backing into a slip in a marina, just assume the fingers on either side are boats instead of dock fingers.

That said, my marina is that exact configuration, and I have backed in a few times (though not in wind) to work on the stern. With strong port propwalk, passing the slip and turning around is the best approach. I turn away from my slip as if I were entering the slip across from mine. Halfway through the turn, I give hard reverse. As the boat slows forward and begins to reverse, propwalk completes the turn so my boat is aligned with my slip. Assuming I timed it right, I can leave it in reverse until I have steerage and can then take it out of gear and steer the rest of the way in.

Related, my marina is narrow enough I can't complete the turn into my slip while going forward without a burst of reverse and using propwalk to make the right turn. If I were docking on the port side of the marina, I would always pass it and back in. I see other boats do this.

[Montanan]

I am unclear as to narrowness between the wall on the right side and the boats tied stern to the pontoon on the left and whether one can position a crew member on the wall across the channel from and a bit upwind from where you will back into the pontoon between other boats.

If the wall is accessible to a crew person and not a far distance from the slip [say two to five or even ten boat lengths] you are assigned and the wall has tie off points, [cleats or posts] one could drop off a crew person with a line attached to your bow and that crew person could belay a line from your bow and hold your boats bow into the wind and you then steer your boat in reverse into the slip while the bow is kept from falling off too far or too fast downwind in the channel as the crew person on the wall allows line to pay out as you take your boat in.

Once your boat is safely belayed with the windward stern line first and the leeward stern line next, the line controlled by the crew person on the wall can be let loose and recovered from your boat and your bow med moored.

Use all available places for control as this aides in keeping things from bashing and smashing in strong winds or strong currents.

[meirriba]

Install a powerful bowthruster...

[TrentePieds]

@ #11

Quote: "Why this approach may not work?"

If I understand you diagram and your explanation correctly: There is no way in Hades you are going to convince a modern boat in 20 knots of wind, and with a right-handed prop, to back into the slip while you are butt to weather and the stern is coming to Starboard. None of us can do that, and no experienced man would try it. The modern boat's fundamental design militates against it.

Suijin has laid it out.

So lemme tell you what I would do: If I were driven to it, and couldn't bring on a coupla dock-gorillas to help me, I would come in forwards, nearly ALL THE WAY to the wall at the nether end of your diagram. There I would do a "pirouette", employing prop walk by using alternating forward and reverse thrust and appropriate shifting of helm to make the boat turn around on her pivot point so as to lie head to wind in that position.

I would then go forward with just enuff way to steer until my transom was 1 1/2 boat lengths PAST the weather side of the slip and I'd be over towards the wall on my starboard side, leaving about 3/4 boat length twixt my rail and the wall. I'd lay her dead in the water there. I would then have about 3 seconds before the head would begin to blow off, to lay the helm to port, get her into reverse and pour on the coal. IF the rudder bit soon enuff I MIGHT make it. The rudder will only bite if you go FAST, so you MUST accelerate really hard. If the rudder didn't bite, or if I'd misjudged my position or timing, I could still, because I'd be "head out", chicken out, abort the maneuver and bugger off back out to sea and safety, to wait for calmer conditions.

You no doubt have a roller furling headsail. That will make the swing as you back somewhat uncontrollable. You no doubt have a wheel rather than a tiller. That means that that the time between your taking a helming decision, and the rudder actually coming over, will be long enuff to bugger the maneuver.

Needless to say, in preparation for an attempt at this, you'd fender your starboard side copiously, preferably with scotchmen (big tear-drop-shaped fenders) set cheek by jowl right from your transom corner forward. Mooring lines would only be a distraction during this maneuver because IF you succeed, the wind will hold you against your neighbour to starboard so you can take all the rest of the day to mess with your lines.

An attempt to do what you would like to do has the potential for making some SERIOUSLY expensive noises :-)!

Cheers

TP

[toddster8]

Ah, welcome to my world. (At least I have a finger pier instead of a boat on the upwind side.)
You can't really move the bow against the wind while backing. Must approach going into the wind, slip to port. If winds are light, kill off last of momentum by turning sharp to starboard, gunning reverse to prop walk the stern over. Keep bow slightly into the wind and reverse around the corner.

By the time you can back half-way in to the slip, the bow has blown off and you must execute an emergency abort and try again. Eventually there is a lull instead of a gust at just the right time and you have time to complete the maneuver.

If winds are strong, I'd consider stopping the boat with the bow into the wind and the stern just past the intended slip. Drop anchor. Use prop walk and rudder to back around corner. Hopefully the anchor will hold the bow against the wind.

If all these boats are med-moored and they have anchor chains out... I punt. No clue.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

If I understand you diagram and your explanation correctly: There is no way in Hades you are going to convince a modern boat in 20 knots of wind, and with a right-handed prop, to back into the slip while you are butt to weather and the stern is coming to Starboard. None of us can do that, and no experienced man would try it. The modern boat's fundamental design militates against it.

Suijin has laid it out.

I should have qualified my evaluation. I'm so used to doing these exercises in terms of boats I'm most familiar with, and the OP's options are really a function of what the specific boat can do and can't do.

Used to crew on Beneteau First 36.7 with a spade rudder, sail drive, and pretty deep but narrow keel. That boat would reverse either way, however you wanted, right on a dime. It was a joy to dock. A boat like that would give one more options...provided you knew exactly what it was capable of.

[De.windhoos]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Good advice, thanks! There are a few things that bother me with going downwind with your stern, that as I understand, you suggest. Assume we have no tide, then:


1) Going downwind will increase your speed, so in strong wind you need to kick forward a few times no to go too fast. Also be aware not to loose your bow to the wind. But this is not a main problem.
2) Main problem: when you turn your stern to the pontoon the bow will catch the wind. As a result a boat may angle to the pontoon with the bow more downwind then stern and hit a boat downwind.


On the other hand, going upwind with your stern, also have problems:
1) When you turn your stern to the pontoon, it may be hard to bring the bow across the wind.
2) Not being able to bring the bow across the wind, the boat will be blown to a downwind boat as well.


So what in general is better to choose when approaching pontoon with a stern downwind up upwind approach? (we are talking about average modern production chatter boat, not long keel)

You are right, I wasn't thinking

I would still take the downwind reversed route, because going back upwind and then making the turn will push the bow downwind before you have a straight line into the space, to counter that you need to point the stern of the boat downwind, therefore you will be pushed downwind overall.

If you reverse and start the turn slightly upwind from the windward boat you can make use off the wind instead of fighting against it. I believe this way there is less change that you will T-bone your boat on the leeward boat.

[Lifeonalean]

I have the exact same situation at my home marina. After trying multiple different techniques, I have found just backing all the way in from the open is the best and easiest solution. No prop walk to deal with. You just gotta manage your speed depending on the strength of the wind so you don't get blown off during your turn. My two cents

[TrentePieds]

Yes Suijin :-) - we might BOTH have made clear what you and I think is so obvious that it doesn't need stating, viz that in these sorts of situations, the BOAT's abilities, the SKIPPER's competence and how those two mesh together need to be carefully considered. We all adapt our "style" to the abilities of any particular boat we drive and make judgments about whether a) WE know what to do in a given, tricky situation and b) THE BOAT is capable of supporting us in what we want to do.

As always, discretion is the better part of valour :-)!!

TP

[jmschmidt]

Nothing here makes much sense.

[waterman46]

I read some impossible answers, like "go downwind in reverse". Good Luck. With my boat the bow would simply catch the wind, one side or the other, and quickly I'd be spun crosswind and finally with bow downwind, if I didn't catch something on the other boats or the wall during all that.

So, I just got a very powerful bow thruster on my boat which is simply wonderful. Now I can spin it around in it's length, actually steer in reverse (in low wind), etc. However, I am sure that backing any distance downwind in 20 knots even with the thruster, is probably a no go.

I for one, would just refuse to try the suggested manoevre single-handed.

Are there pontoons (what we call "fingers" in US) between each of those stern-tied boats? If not, you can't do this withour damaging boats on each side of your space.

If there are pontoons between each of those docked boats, then moving slowly forward downwind into the space between boats and wall, have crew jump off on downwind pontoon with a line attached to your starboard bow, and he cleats as soon as your stern is even with your upwind pontoon. You or second hand jumps off stern with line onto upwind pontoon, and brings line to the left (in your diagram) along pontoon, cleat it wherever and hauls like hell to get your stern started into your docking space. Meanwhile crew #1 on the other pontoon has to fend your boat off the corner of the downwind pontoon.

This could only be done with a pretty small boat, maybe 30 ft max. Beyond that, the forces in a 20 knot wind are just to much to wrench a boat around as you seem to require.

[LongRange]

Originally Posted by deblen

I've never had to Med. dock,so no personal experience.
I have watched a few Youtube vids of Med. docking. One thing I noticed is that the boats are sometimes so tightly packed that,it appears,bumping your neighbor is accepted practice as long as you are gentle & use lots of fenders.


That would give many a heart attack over here

Heh, not only is it accepted practice, some actively seek out places to moor where there are moored boats to act as guides on either side

There is another, more subtle angle as well. One day we Med moored in Nafplion, Greece, which is a relatively large town by Greek coastal standards. In the morning, when we left the boat, we were alone along a stretch of dock almost 100m long, which is almost unheard-of (was the end of the season by then).

By noon, when we walked back to our boat, we had another moored right alongside us, close enough to reach out and shake hands, which we did. A fascinating German/Irish couple, very experienced liveaboards, and I couldn't help asking the "why right next to us?" question.

Them: "Well, because you had a snubber on your chain, instead of hanging straight off the windlass."

Me: ?!? (obviously perplexed)

Them: "Means it's almost certain you are not charterers."

And then I twigged. Almost everyone who enters Mediterranean ports in their own boats lives in fear, at least while in port. Few things are more terrifying and demanding of immediate action than the clanga-clanga-clang noise of a windlass dropping chain nearby as you're enjoying a blissful nap downstairs.

By tying up right next to somebody else who also cares for their boat, the attack surface area is reduced by 50%. Find a space between two such boats, and you can relax totally until one of them leaves

[2big2small]

This is the text book way of doing it:

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

Just returned from two weeks in Croatia, chartering a Moorings 4600 cat. I know this isn't exactly the same, but we watched dozens of well-meaning monohulls try to dock in crosswind conditions. Here's what I'd say:

1. Go downwind of the intended slip/location.
2. Back into the wind, with enough speed to make your rudder steer reasonably well. Depends on the boat, obviously.
3. Turn into the "slot" with lots of fenders on both sides.
4. Delay putting the boat in forward until you are very close to the wall.
5. Big push in forward to stop your sternway.
6. Toss lines to those on dock.
7. Put engine in forward, slowly, to tension stern lines.

The rule of thumb is to always approach the dock against the wind, even if you’re backing up. You make a fluid turn into the slip and propwalk is not relevant.

I’ve done this in 30 knots of wind. The harder it blows, the faster you have to go so the wind can’t play with your bow. Obviously you have to know your boat really well. In 30 knots, I have to go so fast that I’m on the verge of loosing control of the wheel and really have to brace myself and use all my strength.

When it’s gusty, ideally you toodle around downwind waiting for a lull before launching yourself. You can stay pretty stationary with your stern to the wind at low revolutions, waiting in the starting blocks as it were.

(In Step 6 above, start with the upwind line.
In Step 5, you can start braking gently at the earliest as soon as your (fin) keel is between the two other boats but you must retain momentum and avoid strong propwalk. The tighter the spot the sooner you’ll want to brake. Obviously boats with narrow sterns are at a big advantage for this maneuver. I have a fat squat stern which makes it even more hair raising.)

Don’t try this to wedge yourself into really tight spots where you litterally have to pull yourself in and push the other boats aside. You must have enough room for an unimpeded fluid motion.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Please let me explain, what other option I am talking about. No need to turn the boat 180 degrees. Ok, step by step:
1) Boat enters the channel from N (top of the drawing) going forward.
2) Goes down, one boat length past the slip on her starboard.
3) Reverse back, no 180 degree turn, just reverse with stern into wind, going back north (to the top of the drawing).
4) Keeping in revers turns into the slip, stern to pontoon


Why this approach may not work?

best solution Ive seen
my bow is sensitive to the wind and things get a lot more predictable reversing, you can also see better

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Please let me explain, what other option I am talking about. No need to turn the boat 180 degrees. Ok, step by step:
1) Boat enters the channel from N (top of the drawing) going forward.
2) Goes down, one boat length past the slip on her starboard.
3) Reverse back, no 180 degree turn, just reverse with stern into wind, going back north (to the top of the drawing).
4) Keeping in revers turns into the slip, stern to pontoon


Why this approach may not work?

Two issues:
1. Propwalk is to port, trying to pull stern away from intended slot that is on starboard of the backin boat.
2. Wind is 20 kn pushing bow away from the intened 90 deg angle to pontoon.

So the question is how to overcome these 2 effects, both working against the intended path into the slot.