Don't push on stanchions! Here's why...

[hamburking]

THANK YOU for bringing this up. Its a peeve of mine as well.

When coming into a dock with "helping hands" I usually yell "Don't touch the stanchions, they're about to fall off"...which is not true, but seems to do the trick, and is somewhat believable on a 40 year old sailboat. Although I often need to follow up with "not the lifeline either...just go for the bow". Then I use a bit of reverse so they never get the bow.

Once I tied a line to a shore cleat near the bow, then handed it to the "helper" on shore near the stern and told him to keep an even tension on it and be ready to pull hard. I could see him straining on that line even after I left the dock. "What about this line" he called after me..."Just keep pulling" I yelled back...and he did.

I see boats with fenders and/or dock lines tied to stanchions all over....there is no strength there, what a shame, self induced damage.

I keep my boat at a marina with dock staff who help you cast off or take your lines when you come in. Each season it would take a few weeks for me to train the newbs to not touch the boat or pull on any line. "So why are we here?" they would ask. "I pay a fortune for this dock, and that includes you" I would tell them. "Just getting what I paid for."

[Calif.Ted]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

So what are they made for? I presume the answer is "something to grab onto just before you are washed overboard." So are they adequate for that, or are you just overboard hanging on to a mess of lifelines and ripped loose stanchions? Why aren't these things installed with decent bolts and backing plates?

They are to remind you to hang on to a shroud, grab rail or something that is solid and where the edge of the deck is. A stanchion is really a lever and if you put a 300 Lb load on the end it's doomed to failure unless it was very heavily overbuilt, the backing plate would need to be large yet fit in a very small place.

[zeehag]

stanchions and lifelines are not meant to save lives and never were meant to save lives--they merely show you where the edge is--totally idiotic and nonfunctional as emergency use items.
they willnot save your life--can actually cost your life.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

They are to remind you to hang on to a shroud, grab rail or something that is solid and where the edge of the deck is. A stanchion is really a lever and if you put a 300 Lb load on the end it's doomed to failure unless it was very heavily overbuilt, the backing plate would need to be large yet fit in a very small place.

I see. I'll explain that to my guest, who thought the stanchion was more than merely decorative and found herself sprawled on a pier, 10 feet below.

As a lawyer who periodically defends product-liability lawsuits, I don't like my case, here.

[Cheechako]

Yes many or those stancions do that. Obviously they should have used thicker bottom plates . The gussets are in the right direction but the plate just bends.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

FYI- When you re-bed the stanchions, and any thing else for that matter, take a countersink bit and bevel out each hole before you put on caulking. Just a little 1/8" bevel, so when you tighten down the fitting there is somewhere for caulk to go. Sorta makes an "o" ring of sealant around the hole and it'll never leak. If you need to tighten it later for some reason, get someone to hold the head of the fastener, and tighten the nut from underneath. An old man told me that decades ago (I'm the old man now...) and I've done it ever since. Never had a leak yet...

Sorry if you already knew this but I've encountered many people who've never heard of beveling/chamfering a hole. On the other hand I've had people argue the logic of it

[ZULU40]

Wouldn't a socket type be stronger as then you have 2 gauge thickness's of SS, especially if it were perhaps a little taller than this one shown? Of course we could say that it would then bend above the socket, where the wall thickness comes into play.

I recall during Gropers powercat build he experimented with composite lifeline stanctions, which would bend but return to form.

[bailsout]

My first sailboat, wood Kingscruiser, had none. The lifelines on my Columbia 29 and wood Hereshoff 28 ketch I removed shortly after purchase. I tether. The old stanchion bases make for handy fender ties.

[ebsail]

Why do we have wire lifelines when we could have solid 1" railing like most powerboats? This spreads the load to all the adjoining stantions . As far as I know, only Amel uses solid tubing lifelines

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by caradow

You are absolutely right.
Have had to educate many well meaning dock helpers. .................

And you will be "educating" them as long as you continue boating.

The bottom line is, if it looks like a handle, people will use it for a handle.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

So what are they made for? I presume the answer is "something to grab onto just before you are washed overboard." So are they adequate for that, or are you just overboard hanging on to a mess of lifelines and ripped loose stanchions? Why aren't these things installed with decent bolts and backing plates?

A life-line works by going into tension when a load is applied to it, in the manner of a bow-string. The tension loads are transferred to the end-points and carried by their anchors, normally at the bow and stern pulpits. The stanchions merely serve to position the life-lines at the correct height to function. Ideally, one would want the life-lines to be sufficiently tight that one could not pull the top of a stanchion outward far enough to bend the shaft before being stopped by the life-line. Of course, base-plate design plays a crucial roll for the function of the stanchion and the performance of the base plate is largely dependent upon the compression strength of the material the base plate rests upon. If it is weak--such as a balsa cored deck--the base-plate will have to be unusually large to keep the compression loads on the deck surface small enough to prevent the failure of the decking, regardless of any backing plate beneath the compression side of the base plate. Keeping the life-lines tight is the key to their performance tho' one often sees life lines as loose as a goose, draping between stanchions.

FWIW...

[guyrj33]

The real answer is build bases that can handle the stress.
Even if the lifeline and stanchion is only used in an emergency, having it destroy part of the deck is unacceptable.
Quality boats will be manufactured with solid glass under the sanction base. The rest of us can remove the core under the base and fill with solid glass beyond the perimeter of the base. Then add a topping plate of fiberglass sheet, also larger than the stanchion base. Epoxy the topping plate to the deck. Add an equal or larger side backing plate under the deck. Even a small increase in the size of the base greatly reduces the force applied by the stanchion.
It's still ok to ask enters not to pull on the stanchions, but at least it won't be because they are too weak to be truly useful.

[TrentePieds]

The height of the upper "life line" in small boats - i.e. the vast majority of boats discussed here - is quite precisely calculated to catch you behind the knees and pitch you overboard.

"Life lines" in any small sail boat I've ever been in are a danger to life and limb, and ought, IMO, to be prohibited. The proper way to protect yourself and anyone else going forward is to use jack-line and tether.

As for the marina crew - what do you expect of students picking up a few bux for the next semester? My usual approach to marina crew is a big smile and a "Thanks very much, my friend, but please stand clear!"


TrentePieds

[SaltyMetals]

Yes, if it is an alongside mooring there is a problem because visitors tend to grab the stanchions each side of the "gate" and pull themselves up on deck. My solution is to tie a large knotted rope to a secure point up on the roofing of the deck and then lay the line across the side deck and through the gate so that visitors can pull themselves up on it. I used to have some steps but they got forgotten in some marina when we were leaving many thousands of miles ago. Now it is the knotted rope that provides the solution and since it is tied to the boat it does not get forgotten when we leave.
Andrew

[s/v Jedi]

My stanchion bases are bolted to the deck as well as to the toe-rail. The two that go through the toe rail are threaded rods welded to a highly polished stainless backing plate which sits on the outside of the toe rail and have lock-nuts at the stanchion base. I thought it was a frequently used setup but my image search didn't find it yet...

About replacing the core: I don't think it is a disadvantage to enlarge the bolt holes through the deck, because you fill them with epoxy which is much stronger than what is there now. A bigger hole gives more room to work and because the epoxy plug you cast is locked between the fiberglass skins as it's center diameter is larger, it becomes a reinforcement rather than a weakness. Also, I bevel the edge for more surface area that the epoxy can bond to.

Here is how I added stern cleats to my deck. The cast epoxy has a diameter that is 1" bigger than the holes you see, i.e. 1/2" under the top skin all around. I thickened it with high density filler for maximum strength. I also filled the non-skid pattern under the cleat base to that it can't be crushed.