Experience required to cross the Pacific

[Chris Cringle]

Forgive me for being a trifle discouraging, but I hope you are quite young. Because as Hal Roth said, “ One lifetime is not enough to learn it all.” But….not to worry, as another very experienced sailor, Rudy Choy said, “You don’t go to sea to be safe”. So………just do it.

[ChrisJHC]

While not hitting reefs is quite important, I suggest it’s not the first thing you need to focus on if you have zero experience!

I’d recommend focussing on:

1. Training. It looks like you’re in the USA so the ASA system is probably the most appropriate. The RYA system is probably more aligned with what you’re trying to do, however not as common in the US. Note I have no experience with ASA.

2. Experience. Get on a boat! It really doesn’t matter what sort of boat, just get out there regularly in a range of weather and conditions. Many yacht clubs have a system to match potential crew with boats, particularly if you have some training under your belt.
You’ll get extra points if you let the owner know you’re keen to help out with maintenance and “boat jobs” so you can learn.

3. Own a “learner” boat. An often-recommended path, and one I did myself. If you buy an older, common boat you should be able to pick it up relatively cheaply and be able to move it on when you’ve learnt what you want from it. Popular boats will often have owners groups that will help you with all your beginner questions.

Hope that gives you some pointers!

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I have the goal of sailing solo across the Pacific and then around SE Asia. Solo will make it more difficult, particularly if something goes wrong. Your Proper Planning beforehand will prevent a lot of problems....I particularly want to visit remote and uninhabited atolls and islands to photograph wildlife. What types of wild life are you after? Uninhabited reefs and atolls mainly abound in sea and bird life, if that. They are uninhabited for a reason. Some of them require permits to visit, issued by the country under whose protection they lie.

I currently have almost zero sailing experience and zero knowledge of systems on a boat and how to fix them.

My current plan is to get some experience crewing on boats in the Caribbean before buying my own boat there and continuing my education on that before going through the canal. To some extent, this all will depend on how much $$ you have to throw at it. For example, health insurance costs, now required for entry, run around 1,500 AUD per person for 89 days in both Fiji and New Caledonia. If this requirement for entry spreads, it will certainly raise the dollar costs of cruising, and make cruising more difficult for the lower bucks cruisers.

I'm looking for any tips on the types of things/trips I should be doing to get myself in the best possible position to do this. It would also be good to get an idea of roughly how long it could take (dedicating all of my time to it) to become a competent enough sailor/boat mechanic to complete the journey in relative safety.

Tips, eh? Well, first buy the smallest, simplest boat that you feel comfortable with that is compatible with your budget. And go sail it an learn it. Be aware that boats need to have their bottoms (submerged surfaces subject to marine biofouling) kept clean, usually accomplished by being hauled out of the water to be antifouled--or by a diver, and this means you must have more insurance, 3rd party, so you can pay them if your boat damages something. It's never cheap. In addition, marinas require 3rd party, also. In the preparation time to go cruising, it is far more convenient to live aboard and get the boat up to snuff if you are in a marina. Usually how much you pay is based on the length over all of the boat (you'll pay more with a bowsprit).

• What kind of sailing experience did you have before you felt comfortable crossing the Pacific?
• What types of smaller adventures should I be undertaking to get prepared?
• What types of skills do you think would be most crucial for such a journey?

*Our lives worked out so that we sailed weekends and holidays, and vacations while we tied up our shore lives. We sailed on Jim's Yankee 30 to Hawaii from San Francisco and return to see how we felt about crossing an ocean, and decided we wanted a bigger boat.

* At a minimum, you should do a week's singlehand trip, coastally, non-stop. Not only do you need to learn what to do about seasickness, but how you want to manage your sleep cycle, so you should pick a weather window that will give you both upwind and off the wind experience. You should experience at least one thunderstorm and learn how to deploy your storm jib, and where it will sheet to when/if you practice heaving to for a rest. If you decide you want to be well rested to enter a new harbor and prefer to go in about mid day for the best seeing into the water (to spot coral heads, and whatever else is hiding there), you will need to know how to slow the boat.

Those are all "seamanship" issues, and you can keep a simpler boat, and not worry about fancy electronics. Read the Pardey books, they were of the keep it simple and go now school, and you can read about how they did it. *Stuff* stops working on boats. If it is straightforward mechanical stuff, it responds well to one's thinking it through. The more complex it is, the more vulnerable to having a hissy and quitting working. You need to consider things like pumps. What actually makes the water come through the hose? Our boat has foot pumps, our previous boat had pressure water throughout, but this boat has pressure water for the shower and the afterdeck hose, only. That's right, galley water is heated on the stove. It's usually better than backpacking, but I quit counting our sea miles after 175,000. You might want to consider a windvane. Jim made ours, and it steered that boat over 78,000 n.m. They are silent and steer an average course. Electronic autopilots steer a tighter course, and draw power, and make noise.

*The skills you'll need:
1)learn to read the sky and water, to anticipate the expected changes in wind direction, and charts, to know what is hiding in the water, and learn to stay well off reefs.

2)if your boat has an engine, get the factory repair manual, and the necessary tools to work on it. You should have changed out at least a water pump and done an oil change and found where to take the used oil to. You need to own the boat for at least a year, and get comfortable with its foibles and normal maintenance. It will be a lot easier for you if you do, but how much you are willing to teach yourself on the fly is a personal issue: no one can tell you what will work for you, only what worked or didn't for them. In our case, Jim had a history of building successful race cars, and I had done my own simple mechanic-ing on my own car, back in the days when that was still possible. My mistakes taught me a lot.

Imo, it is not that your mission statement is not doable, but it is that you don't yet know how much you don't know, and there's a lot. Fortunately CF is here, and there are a lot of experienced people who answer specific questions about how to solve problems one has, as long as you have internet connectivity.

On the down side, I'm wondering if you've ever been out of internet range? How will you tolerate the aloneness of that?

Ask yourself how you might handle a dismasting, mid-Pacific. Because the temptation might be to throw the mess overboard, but then how do you jury rig a way to sail the boat anyway, and get in to port later, but under your own power? With only you to do it?

Another caveat: most You Tube sailing deals are taken during the calm times, and do not show how the people approach their problem solving. So don't take the impression home of how easy it is, because it's lots harder at 45 knots when it is too wet to video.


Ann

[robert sailor]

Well I wouldn’t jump in a boat and go for it as some might suggest as almost all the risks I’ve taken in life are calculated. I enjoy risk taking but I’m not a gambler.
You need to compentantly be able to handle whatever boat you end up with so that’s going to take some time. You have to be able to have basic understanding of offshore weather. You have to be able to handle radios. You need to be a fixit type of person. You need to be able to feed yourself. Buy yourself a good book and read it and set together a plan and then work your plan. You’d do yourself a big favour if you could befriend someone that’s a compitant sailor. It’s absolutely amazing how incompetent people can get on a boat and take a completely normal situation and turn it into a life and death experience that has them writing a book about it. Do your best not to be one of those types. Nothing will teach you more about sailing than being crew on a race boat. It’s won’t teach you anything about cruising, that’s something altogether different. I’ve run into very competent cruisers over the years who are very safe on the water but can’t sail worth crap, they always get where they are going safety but it takes them way longer than a good sailor. I’m sure there are just as many good sailors that are lousy cruisers as well. Anyways if your history is one of completing tasks and rising to a challenge then you’ll probably do just fine.

[Enfant Du Vent]

As an earlier post said, "This. Cruising around the world is doing boat repairs in exotic locations."


He forgot to say that the shopping for needed parts will be in a foreign language.

Luckily for me, another customer in the line spoke English (my language) AND Spanish (the language of the clerk).


PS: re-read and then re-read again the reply that JPA Cate posted. They know of what they speak.

[Jim Cate]

re Ann's post 18 above:

She failed to mention that before we met and she started sailing with me I had over a decade of experience, as follows:

Knowing sweet FA about sailing I bought a 15 foot daysailor sloop. Started sailing (after reading a book) first on local lakes and then quickly out on San Francisco Bay (perhaps not the safest thing I've ever done!) Kept that boat for ~18 months, sailing nearly every weekend with ex-wife and two smallish kids.

Then bought a Catalina 22 trailer sailor. Kept her for 7 years, sailing and racing in SFB, plus longer vacation cruises (by trailer) to the Channel Islands and then the Canadian gulf Islands... that one lasting 4 weeks.

Then bought the Yankee 30, and continued cruising and racing, both in SFB and cruising as far as the Channel islands several times... a coastal voyage of circa 350 miles each way, and the return voyages being upwind and up current. Also started single hand ocean racing in the Gulf of the Farralones. All of these activities exposed me to a wide range of sea conditions and a lot of "fixin" stuff" on demand. Not always very pleasant, believe me!

And that is where Ann's narrative began. So, I had a pretty good background for our first offshore cruise to Hawaii, and then our long term cruising life for the past 37 years, in which we have done just what you envision.

So, I can't responsibly recommend that you buy a 40 foot yacht, futz about for a year and set off across the pond. I think following a path at least similar in shape if not in duration to mine is a better outlook... but that's likely not what you want to hear.

To counter the "do it now" advice offered upthread, I would suggest that you so some research here on CF, for there have been a number of boats abandoned and folks rescued threads of late. In them, and in only modestly unpleasant conditions, inexperienced skippers and crews summoned aid, abandoned perfectly good sailboat and lept into a rescue vessel. Their lack of useful experience cost them their boats and their dignity. It could have cost them their lives had the misadventure arrived in mid-Pacific.

The cruising life has been hugely rewarding for me, and I have few regrets about how it has played out. A hell of a lot of hard work, expense and some drudgery went into the preparation... but, looking back on it, I enjoyed nearly all of it (some night watches in bad weather when fatigued have been conveniently erased from memory!).

Good luck in whatever course you choose to steer. And, as a group, the CF board of experts and others is ready to help when we can.

Jim

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

*Our lives worked out so that we sailed weekends and holidays, and vacations while we tied up our shore lives. We sailed on Jim's Yankee 30 to Hawaii from San Francisco and return to see how we felt about crossing an ocean, and decided we wanted a bigger boat.

* At a minimum, you should do a week's singlehand trip, coastally, non-stop. Not only do you need to learn what to do about seasickness, but how you want to manage your sleep cycle, so you should pick a weather window that will give you both upwind and off the wind experience. You should experience at least one thunderstorm and learn how to deploy your storm jib, and where it will sheet to when/if you practice heaving to for a rest. If you decide you want to be well rested to enter a new harbor and prefer to go in about mid day for the best seeing into the water (to spot coral heads, and whatever else is hiding there), you will need to know how to slow the boat.

Those are all "seamanship" issues, and you can keep a simpler boat, and not worry about fancy electronics. Read the Pardey books, they were of the keep it simple and go now school, and you can read about how they did it. *Stuff* stops working on boats. If it is straightforward mechanical stuff, it responds well to one's thinking it through. The more complex it is, the more vulnerable to having a hissy and quitting working. You need to consider things like pumps. What actually makes the water come through the hose? Our boat has foot pumps, our previous boat had pressure water throughout, but this boat has pressure water for the shower and the afterdeck hose, only. That's right, galley water is heated on the stove. It's usually better than backpacking, but I quit counting our sea miles after 175,000. You might want to consider a windvane. Jim made ours, and it steered that boat over 78,000 n.m. They are silent and steer an average course. Electronic autopilots steer a tighter course, and draw power, and make noise.

*The skills you'll need:
1)learn to read the sky and water, to anticipate the expected changes in wind direction, and charts, to know what is hiding in the water, and learn to stay well off reefs.

2)if your boat has an engine, get the factory repair manual, and the necessary tools to work on it. You should have changed out at least a water pump and done an oil change and found where to take the used oil to. You need to own the boat for at least a year, and get comfortable with its foibles and normal maintenance. It will be a lot easier for you if you do, but how much you are willing to teach yourself on the fly is a personal issue: no one can tell you what will work for you, only what worked or didn't for them. In our case, Jim had a history of building successful race cars, and I had done my own simple mechanic-ing on my own car, back in the days when that was still possible. My mistakes taught me a lot.

Imo, it is not that your mission statement is not doable, but it is that you don't yet know how much you don't know, and there's a lot. Fortunately CF is here, and there are a lot of experienced people who answer specific questions about how to solve problems one has, as long as you have internet connectivity.

On the down side, I'm wondering if you've ever been out of internet range? How will you tolerate the aloneness of that?

Ask yourself how you might handle a dismasting, mid-Pacific. Because the temptation might be to throw the mess overboard, but then how do you jury rig a way to sail the boat anyway, and get in to port later, but under your own power? With only you to do it?

Another caveat: most You Tube sailing deals are taken during the calm times, and do not show how the people approach their problem solving. So don't take the impression home of how easy it is, because it's lots harder at 45 knots when it is too wet to video.


Ann

Thanks for the great reply I appreciate the advice!

I work in remote places, often alone so spending a few weeks by myself is pretty normal - it's one of the attractions of sailing for me.

I've been trying to watch as many real-life sailing-disaster videos as I can find to get an idea of how badly things can go wrong - did the same thing with motorbikes before I got one of those. I just saw one where a guy got dismasted in the pacific, he ditched his mast etc and motored back to land and people dropped him gas along the way. Should he have cut a chunk out of the mast you think and tried to stand it up?

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

re Ann's post 18 above:

She failed to mention that before we met and she started sailing with me I had over a decade of experience, as follows:

Knowing sweet FA about sailing I bought a 15 foot daysailor sloop. Started sailing (after reading a book) first on local lakes and then quickly out on San Francisco Bay (perhaps not the safest thing I've ever done!) Kept that boat for ~18 months, sailing nearly every weekend with ex-wife and two smallish kids.

Then bought a Catalina 22 trailer sailor. Kept her for 7 years, sailing and racing in SFB, plus longer vacation cruises (by trailer) to the Channel Islands and then the Canadian gulf Islands... that one lasting 4 weeks.

Then bought the Yankee 30, and continued cruising and racing, both in SFB and cruising as far as the Channel islands several times... a coastal voyage of circa 350 miles each way, and the return voyages being upwind and up current. Also started single hand ocean racing in the Gulf of the Farralones. All of these activities exposed me to a wide range of sea conditions and a lot of "fixin" stuff" on demand. Not always very pleasant, believe me!

And that is where Ann's narrative began. So, I had a pretty good background for our first offshore cruise to Hawaii, and then our long term cruising life for the past 37 years, in which we have done just what you envision.

So, I can't responsibly recommend that you buy a 40 foot yacht, futz about for a year and set off across the pond. I think following a path at least similar in shape if not in duration to mine is a better outlook... but that's likely not what you want to hear.

To counter the "do it now" advice offered upthread, I would suggest that you so some research here on CF, for there have been a number of boats abandoned and folks rescued threads of late. In them, and in only modestly unpleasant conditions, inexperienced skippers and crews summoned aid, abandoned perfectly good sailboat and lept into a rescue vessel. Their lack of useful experience cost them their boats and their dignity. It could have cost them their lives had the misadventure arrived in mid-Pacific.

The cruising life has been hugely rewarding for me, and I have few regrets about how it has played out. A hell of a lot of hard work, expense and some drudgery went into the preparation... but, looking back on it, I enjoyed nearly all of it (some night watches in bad weather when fatigued have been conveniently erased from memory!).

Good luck in whatever course you choose to steer. And, as a group, the CF board of experts and others is ready to help when we can.

Jim

Thanks! 37 Years wow, you must have had some amazing experiences. Did you guys leave the boat places to go and work elsewhere? Find work along the way?

Yeah I can't say the idea of spending ten years in preparation fills me with excitement, I'm not going to be restricted to weekends though, or have kids to worry about so I'm hoping I can cram a lot in a shorter space of time.

[Sos]

Buy a run down old boat and fix it up. You will learn loads and can than go sailing for a bit.
Then sell it and buy the boat you want to live and sail on and then do that one up because boats always need fixing and improving!
As well as here you will find plenty of people on the way who can help and advise. Good luck

[JPA Cate]

Lawnmower, it's really hard to suss out how serious you are about this. Sorry, but the original question is so very general, it is hard to tell....

We've had lovely experiences, but we were moderately experienced--and there were two of us. It is a very much different thing, singlehanded. We know an ex-SAS guy, who has cruised a lot singlehanded, but he often has crew with him, too.

Ann

[Searles]

Simple answer ,a lifetime,and then some .⛵️⚓️

[Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Lawnmower, it's really hard to suss out how serious you are about this. Sorry, but the original question is so very general, it is hard to tell....

We've had lovely experiences, but we were moderately experienced--and there were two of us. It is a very much different thing, singlehanded. We know an ex-SAS guy, who has cruised a lot singlehanded, but he often has crew with him, too.

Ann

I'm interested in what you mean by moderately experienced basically.

I want to get an idea of how long it took people from when they started sailing/cruising until they were ready to cross an ocean like the Pacific. Also, what kinds of experiences in particular helped them prepare for that.

I do like the idea of having crew at times but I'd rather plan and learn as if I'm not going to have help.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I'm interested in what you mean by moderately experienced basically.

I want to get an idea of how long it took people from when they started sailing/cruising until they were ready to cross an ocean like the Pacific. Also, what kinds of experiences in particular helped them prepare for that.

I do like the idea of having crew at times but I'd rather plan and learn as if I'm not going to have help.

How long does it take till one is ready to cross an ocean solo..
I sailed the S coast UK for several years on various boats I owned from 21ft to 26ft before buying a 31ftr and setting off for the Med with a zero experience gf which lasted 4yrs till we sold the boat and parted ways.
I went back to England and worked a year then the bug got too strong so sold my 2 m/bikes and car and flew to SXM with $25k in a money belt round my belly and bought a 1987 Bene 321 for $22k, spent 5mths sailing the Caribe then left for the UK mid June. I have never had such an awesome trip before or since that one.. I caught what some call Mottesier Disease.. I arrived at the Azores but instead of stopping I sailed on by and 47 days after leaving SXM I sighted Lands End and entered the English Channel.
No engine as electrics were blown by lightning, Port lowers popped and jury rigged with block and tackle but tiller pilot operating on the only upgrade I had made, a 10W solar panel and independent 12v battery dedicated solely to the TP.
A couple I met while sailing the Med with similar experience to myself (UK to Med) split up, she went home and he decided to sail to the Caribe solo.. he got halfway to the Canaries, turned round and came back to Agua Dulce, put the boat on the hard and up for sale.
Living alone in remote places on land is totally different from mid ocean, so as comparisons above show, it does not matter how well the boat is set up (and Rob's was very well set up $+) or how big and strong you are it's the mental part of people that will break first and when that happens everything else counts for nothing.
The abandoned boats drifting the oceans attest to that.

[Nbarch]

Hi Lawnmower; as Sailing Harmonie mentioned, maintenance is the biggest challenge, not the sailing.

So using the anacronym, K.I.S.S.; keep it small and simple! Buy something like a Albin Vega 27 or Contessa 26 etc. Refit it yourself and don’t install (or remove) anything you cannot fix. Keep it simple and understand every inch of the boat.

I would also recommend reading the books of John Neal (Log of the Mahina) and Tania Aebi (Maiden Voyage) who did just want you want to do. Les Powles (Solitaire Sprit) sailed around the world with only 8 hours sailing experience! I would not recommend that, but it shows it can be done.

On U tube, check out the Wave Rover channel and his experience of sailing a Contessa 26 across the Atlantic. Good luck in your quest!

[carstenb]

how long does it take to get ready(in terms of being a sailor?)

different for anyone I guess. My wife and I bought a 22 foot and sailed her for 3 years, sold her and bought a 33 foot bavaria, sailed her for 3 years, finally bought Capri, a 40 foot Jeanneau that we have sailed for 40,00 sm around most of the world.

We took diverse sailing course finishing with the Danish version of Yachtmaster Ocean.

Took us longer than it should have because we were still working, but figure on spending 5-6 years if you want to really be ready.

Of course the learning curve will still be steep, most likely vertical. But you'll either figure it out or give up.

Just an aside - you note that you have worked in out of the way places so you don't think single-handed passages will be a problem. Sailing single ahnded is much different than just being alone. In nasty weather you will be hard pressed to get enough sleep, just making a hot meal will tax your resources and if something goes wrong, you might end up spending many hours in uncomfortable and dangerous positions trying to fix something vital

Like going up the mast while at sea - difficult enough when there are two or more you - single handed is an entirely different story.

Can you dive? We've had to go under the boat while at sea because we got fishing net wrapped around the keel and rudder. Think about being down there with a knife and having 12 tons of boat slamming down on your noggin