Genoa and stay sail upwind

[Networker]

I’ve not been able to find much info online to answer this; we have a cutter rigged boat and experimented with putting the Genoa and stay sail out at the same time when going upwind in conditions 8-12kts, and it seemed to really give us a boost in speed. Is this advisable and a normal thing to do? Any issues with doing this?

[s/v Moondancer]

We sailed from Miami to Northern Japan flying the genoa and staysail as you describe at every opportunity.

[Networker]

Nice, did you do it for the speed boost? Any other benefits? I presume above 15kts it’s not needed, or did you still do it?

[s/v Moondancer]

Speed

[boatman61]

You also point better..

[psk125]

KISS. If it works, keep it up. If it doesn't, take it down.

[danstanford]

My mind jumped immediately to a discussion about using the staysail with asymmetrical kites on race boats. Someone observed that they saw a half knot increase when they put the staysail up and half a knot increase when they took it down!

I still find it funny (as they intended)!

[pdx_sailing]

Do you always engage the running backstays when using the staysail? New to the cutter rig.

[michaeld]

I could be wrong, but I think running backstays attach at the masthead. Check stays attach at the second spreaders where/near the inner forestay attaches to the mast. We also have a cutter rig. In the past six years, we have never used the check stays. As far as I know, their purpose is to stabilize the rig in heavier air when the sail is reefed. If/When we get caught out in 25 kts or more, I'll definitely deploy the windward side.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

We also have a cutter rig. The running backs attach on the mast opposite the staysail to prevent the mast from inverting especially in heavier air and larger seas.

Boatie - what is the reason you can point higher in light to moderate winds with the staysail out in conjunction with the genoa? I have always thought the genoa alone allowed better pointing

[pdx_sailing]

Thanks for the replies, I have tangs on the mast at the spreaders near the baby stay. I have heard them referred to as both running back and check stays. So you typically only set the additional stays with wind 25kn + and or sea state that would unsettle the rig?

My thought on pointing higher with the stay sail would be the inboard sheeting angle of the stay sail over the genoa. (?)

[Jim Cate]

Without the runners you will find it difficult to keep the inner forestay tight enough to limit sag and loss of sail shape... and that will compromise getting to windward.

Jim

[ItDepends]

On the cutters I have sailed, it was very rare to find a point of sail and conditions where it made any sense to use both headsails. Sometimes on an apparent wind beam reach, but NEVER close hauled. Make a pretty picture, but that’s about it.

You boat might be different, but I’d doubt it.

[Bowdrie]

On a boat designed as a true cutter the mast is further aft than on a sloop.
The rig comes into its own when just cracked off the wind a bit, perhaps a close reach.
The staysail, paired with a higher cut/shorter foot "Yankee" jib can be quite efficient on that point of sail.
A previous post about using runners to keep a tight forestay is apropos.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

On a boat designed as a true cutter the mast is further aft than on a sloop.
The rig comes into its own when just cracked off the wind a bit, perhaps a close reach.
The staysail, paired with a higher cut/shorter foot "Yankee" jib can be quite efficient on that point of sail.
A previous post about using runners to keep a tight forestay is apropos.

Runners at all wind speeds or just higher speeds? I didn’t see the mast pumping or even bend at all with both sails out in 8-12kts, curious what the rule of thumb is for when runners are needed? All the time or just higher speeds?