Getting Towed Over Shoals...

[gonesail]

you tried to take a tayana into matanzas inlet ??

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by gonesail

you tried to take a tayana into matanzas inlet ??

Wow..........

[msulc]

I think we would have had a bunch of other problems if we tried that We were headed south on the ICW and got stuck just inside of the inlet.

[AnchorageGuy]

There are so many questions that a simple, the tow driver did not know what he was doing, answer just may not fit. First, the construction of you boat is such that there is almost certainly no damage to your boat other than the loss of some bottom paint. As to the other boats that went around and outside the channel, what was there draft? and what was yours? Where did they leave the channel compared to where you did? The towboats always use a working channel and not 16 and I am sure he had to communicate with you on this channel at some point. I would also be willing to bet that he has towed off more than your boat at some point in this area. In addition, once you are aground, there is a very good chance that no matter what direction you get towed you are going to hit more shallow spots. That is unless the towboat pulls you dead astern of where you came into the shoal, and he will not do that because you will damage the rudder. You are off the shoal, under way and no damage to the boat. In all of my years of traveling the ICW, I would consider that a good grounding. WG

[A_TowBoatUS_Cap]

I am a TowBoatUS Captain, and this is a professional reply. Several things...The captain should have informed you of the working channel. He also should have responded to you on 16. He should have asked you your draft and the configuration of your keel. He should have informed you that there was a good chance of running aground again before getting you to deep water. If there was the possibility of re-grounding, he should not have been going 6 knots. The idea of running faster to bounce you over the next shoals is mind-boggling. If the deep water was out of the "prescribed" channel, he should have informed you of that and taken that route. If you were bouncing off the bottom, he would have known that. We can "feel" your boat hitting the bottom or even slowing down if it is a mud bottom. There is no way he did not know you were bouncing off a sand bottom.

There are good Captains, great Captains, and some pretty lousy Captains out there. Sorry, but this is like most any business. I had an occasion where I was handing off a boat to another towboat franchise. The other captain and I discussed what we would do for the handoff. He wound up cutting me off and then proceeded to ram the vessel I was towing. After he bounced off them, he did it again! Amazing! So, I am afraid to say that it may be the luck of the draw who you get.

In my professional opinion after towing folks for over eight years in simple tows, hard ungroundings, 8-10 foot confused seas offshore, being inside five foot or better breakers with my boat bouncing off the bottom, soft mud, sand, gale force winds, etc, etc, I believe the TowBoatUS operator you had has a good bit to learn.

In our area, we train our Captains. They are not allowed to take a boat by themselves until they have been on basic, intermediate, and harrowing conditions. They are trained to communicate EVERYTHING with the distressed boat. If they have any questions, they are required to talk to the home office. We insure that they have the knowledge of our entire area (over 90 miles of the ICW, off-shoot creeks and rivers, off-shore up to 100 miles, etc.) before they are set free. Our motto is that we will not damage your boat. If the possibility of damage is there, they must discuss the issue with the distressed boater. We are proud to have one of the best feedback opinions from BoatUS in the industry.

I hearby apologize for the issue you have had for TowBoatUS and all our wonderful Captains. Next time you should ground in my area!!! Sorry, just a joke!

I think that aside from the few bad experiences folks have had with TowBoatUS, the vast majority of experiences are positive. Of course, these go unmentioned!

Captain TowBoatUS

[blisspacket]

I'll just repeat what a few have pointed out: the Tayana was in the ICW, not the Inlet, which is one of the few wild and undeveloped inlets of EastCoast FL.

The cuts for the ICW here are constantly shoaling from Inlet influences. It's a high maintenance area. If you're running a deep keel at low tide you're going to get in trouble.

[mrohr]

LESSONS HERE; 1ST reread tow boat captain post above,it's spot on.
2nd post about communication between TWO captains is critical.Do not give up your control of your ship and situation ever unless it's the coasties or somalis pointing guns at you;even then ,explain (nicely ) what needs to happen regarding your boat in order to comply with the gun holders requests/demands.
FWIW: I have been in a number of situations where the person in trouble gave up oversight in a crisis only to have some 'take charge' blowhard make things worse while more experienced and level thinking individuals stood quietly by rolling their eyes.
Often the individuals) in trouble realize he is over his head and is only too willing to let some assertive commando get an adrenaline rush as he "saves the day" for bragging rights at the bar that evening.

Once pulled off a bar(the kind with sand) by Seatow myself; they did a masterful job. Once pulled under a bar by a cute barmaid after closing hours,she was pretty professional too.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by A_TowBoatUS_Cap

Next time you should ground in my area!!!

Out of curiosity, what is your area?

[ulpilot45]

Has anyone ever watched what your car goes thru as it is towed? It hits every pothole n curb no one feels it because unlike boat your not allowed to ride in it. They too have statement they are not reliable for what happens to car while under tow. However they do have to pay up when push comes to shove. From this experience I would ask lots of questions to both car tow n boat tow. Just my thoughts....the mrs.

[macbeth]

I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !

[tager]

It is for this reason that I hesitate to ever accept a tow or give control to an unknown stranger. I would try kedging off, even, before hiring a towboat to save me. I won't say that ending up on the shoal was unseamanlike, because I, like every seasoned sailor, have run aground. I was just lucky enough to hit un unmarked submerged piling in the Goat Island Cut. A treacherous channel with extreme cross-current.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by macbeth

I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !

IMO the boat should be taken out the way it came in. That's where the deep water is/was (unless there's been time for the tide to drop).

Get out of your boat -- it's not going anywhere! -- and walk around your boat in circles. Find out for yourself where the shoals are before the two boat gets there so you have time to think about your options.

You might be best to just stay where you are and wait for the tide to rise, although it depends on a lot of things, like how exposed your rudder will be to damage if you do that.

Be VERY certain that the cleats that would have all that tremendous strain put on them won't just rip out of your boat. Mine are attached to the metal toe rail. While that's great for a standard easy tow, to drag my boat across multiple shoals would put a lot of strain. NOWHERE does the toerail leak on this 1983 boat -- and I like it that way. d

I don't have all the experience in the world but I have experienced getting out and walking around the boat. It can give you a lot of information.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by macbeth

I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !

Every grounding is going to be a different situation. If I got to the point that I felt necessary to drag my boat sideways across shoals I would considerit an extreme need and situation. I would mainly be concerned that the tow boat has enough power to get it out and not just wedge it in shallower water, meaning a serious tow boat.

On my boat when grounded I can stand on the bottom. I have off loaded people, and manually turned and headed the boat to deeper water.

On bigger boats we have pushed the nose around with a powerful rib towards deep water and powered out.

On some boats we crank the tunes, pop a beer and wait 6 hours for high tide.

Bottom conditions and how hard we are stuck will also factor in.

Not to be preachy but it starts with prior planning. A good look at the chart and strategy, knowing where the tide is and going slow are keys. Mid to late rising tide is a good time to be poking around in shallow water. Mid falling tide not so much...

[Capt Phil]

Wow! What a nightmare scenario... being dragged over shoals, no comm's, no idea where or how it is going to end. I would be inclined to go foward and cut the tow line. Doesn't anyone look at a sounder anymore? Charts will give you an idea what the general condition of the area is but in shoal waters, they are inaccurate as hell and not to be relied on because that stuff moves around just with the tide.
I grew up and worked on the water in the PNW which is a lot less forgiving as far as bottom conditions are concerned than sandy bottoms. It is mostly rock up there and bottom depths can change from 20 fathoms to 0 very quickly. Towing logs and barges under those conditions required a thorough knowledge of local waters, being able to read a detailed chart (no plotters in those days!), tide and current conditions as well as how your tow was performing, ie. a barge is a lot different than a flat log boom or a bundle boom.
I agree with the towboat Captain who posted above, the guy must have been new, a replacement or completely lacking in experience in the conditions you were in.
Have you examined how you got in to that fix to start with? Could be some lessons learned for many of us here. Thanks for sharing your nightmare. Capt Phil