Heaving-to myths.

[George_SD]

Learned heave-to in a sailing class and used it on my last outing when our fishing lines got wrapped on prop and keel (don't even ask).

Set it in heave-to, put on the mask and went into the water to free up the lines.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

I also don't get the comment about falling backward whilst laying to a parachute anchor.
My understanding was that the anchor is sized so that this could not happen?
In fact there are stories of boats stopped so effectively they end up drifting with the current, sometimes to windward against the waves.

Someone else answered this above and that answer makes sense. I think there is an additional scenario.

Laying to a para anchor a large wave passes. First the boat rids up the wave, but then rids down the wave backside. As it tides down it creates slack in the rode. Then the next wave pushes the boat back until the slack is gone. It is during this time, sliding hack down the face of a wave, that you can stress your rudder.

With a drogue you can get slack also but you are always moving forward, which
Reduces the amount of slack.

Again, internet expert.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Michael Cobbe

Heaving to is only done in heavy weather so you have to reef the sails before doing that.

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Not, you can heave to in allmost any kind of weather starting from gentle breeze. Then you obviously don't need to reef..

Heaving-to is not just a heavy weather technique...it works fine in light to moderate conditions too...take a break, make repairs, make lunch, make whoopie! [emoji8]

All good reasons to heavy to in non-heavy weather conditions.

[CassidyNZ]

Personally, I would never set my boat up to be hanging off the bow on any kind of sea anchor/drogue but that’s just me.

Having said that, I’ve often wondered why it would be that difficult to lash the helm in the dead-ahead position so that if the boat does slip astern, the rudder would not be exposed to lateral damage. Surely the rudder would only be damaged if it was pushed “sideways on” to the motion backwards?

It is true that in order to successfully heave to, the helm is set to turn the boat to weather but there is a clear distinction between heaving to and hanging off a parachute anchor. Totally different concepts, actually.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Personally, I would never set my boat up to be hanging off the bow on any kind of sea anchor/drogue but that’s just me.

Having said that, I’ve often wondered why it would be that difficult to lash the helm in the dead-ahead position so that if the boat does slip astern, the rudder would not be exposed to lateral damage. Surely the rudder would only be damaged if it was pushed “sideways on” to the motion backwards?

It is true that in order to successfully heave to, the helm is set to turn the boat to weather but there is a clear distinction between heaving to and hanging off a parachute anchor. Totally different concepts, actually.

I have not used a parachute sea anchor but I have read and people have told me that the boat does come forward on wave fronts, putting slack into the rode, then will fall back when the next wave hits them resulting in backwards motion.

Of course this will stress the rudder and lashing it amidships must be done, and very stoutly. The loads, for even a 10' backward slide would be quite high and I have encountered that; once when hove-to without a jib the boat got too far into the wind and became, essentially, in irons. A wave shoved us backwards and it broke off the windvane, completely, in an instant.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Multis don't heave to for weather. Picking up an MOB is about the only good reason. If all you want to do is slow down, just let the main WAY out (full battens--it won't flog) and point high. The slot becomes so plugged the boat practically stops. Heaving to places the boat beam-on to wind an waves , which is the LAST place a multi wants to be, for safety, and just comfort. Either forereach, run off, or run off with a drogue. But don't heave to.

Can you elaborate?

[DefinitelyMe]

I think you'll find that the headsail is not necessary for heaving-to in heavy weather. There's enough surface area up forward to blow the bow off and maintain an attitude perpendicular to the wind. Most boats don't heave-to well in anything under 30 knots, but then in less than 30 knots it's not so important to maintain that attitude with the slick to windward. Some modern boats with fin keels may require a drogue set from one side in order to achieve this. I've tried it and it works beautifully.

In lighter wind some headsail may be necessary to prevent the boat from tacking. You don't need much. Bit of headsail, move cars all the way forward and you should hopefully be able to avoid chafe/pressure on the shroud.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Someone else answered this above and that answer makes sense. I think there is an additional scenario.

Laying to a para anchor a large wave passes. First the boat rids up the wave, but then rids down the wave backside. As it tides down it creates slack in the rode. Then the next wave pushes the boat back until the slack is gone. It is during this time, sliding hack down the face of a wave, that you can stress your rudder.

With a drogue you can get slack also but you are always moving forward, which
Reduces the amount of slack.

Again, internet expert.

Hmm, I hadn't heard that.
The only time I thought there was a danger of sliding backwards was if the chute was undersized or else in a part of the wave train whereby it could break out of the wave...typically if the rode is too short.
I wonder how much stretch there will be in 100meters of nylon?
More research required I think...

I am also interested in why some are reluctant to have the boat head to wind/waves (apart from the obvious difficulty in setting it all up if it hasn't been done beforehand, and, perhaps the reluctance to go into a purely defensive state rather than actively running before it).

[hpeer]

Neville,

I can not attest to anything, like I said “internet expert.” Just something I read. But 100M of nylon (laid not double braid) COULD stretch up to about 30M.

[Dulls]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Heaving-to Vs Trisail?

In my humble opinion as the storm gets worse you will need the tri sail as it moves centre of effort aft helping you to point higher while hove to so as to present better to the waves. Less chance of falling away.

Advantages presents strong bits of boat to the sea.
Slow loss of sea room.
Go down below and eat and sleep. (We did not keep a watch by the way. Am willing to defend that option if asked.)
Disadvantage You can be pushed back with strain on your rudder etc.

I have done the cup of tea type of hove to where you back the jib etc but that is not suitable for strong weather.

Advice is useful only if you have same type of boat or even identical boat and set up to me. Vagabond 31 with long keel and cut away forefoot.

[Dulls]

Heaving to

My limited experience is this.
Heaving too for cup of tea in moderate to light winds dozens of times.

Heaving to for practice for real heavy weather a couple of times per year if that.

Heaving to for real mid ocean (Tasman) 3 times.

My information is useful if you have a long keel with a cut away fore foot. I have no idea about other keel configurations. Even identical boats may heave to differently and i will explain why. You may have more protective covers in and around the cot pit than another identical boat thus changing your windage.

Preparation is important. Before you leave (A minimum list)

1)Sea Anchor in locker with 100m of nylon already attached. All you then have to do is crawl up with one part of the rope to join to bridal or what ever configuration reduces chafe.

2)Tri sail ready to go at foot of mast. I could not do this because of my mast set up. It was a bugger to crawl along the lee deck with it but i had no choice. It stayed in the bag for obvious reasons until i could put it in the track. I did have a separate track for it and that is very important. We hauled up the tri sail in the lee of the triple reefed main as it meant the boat did not become very unstable. We could only do this on the port tack as track was on starboard side of mast.

3) Make a bridle that is suited to your bow configuration to reduce chafe. Sometimes the bridle will be no good as we found as the boat did not lie the way we thought she would.

4) If your trip is more than 5 days there is a good chance that the weather window after the one you picked to start with maybe conducive to heaving too. (One o or two?)

While at Sea.

Some general points. The way your boat heaves to in a force 6 maybe different to how she behaves in a force 9. I will not talk about securing hatches etc.

1) Take sea sickness tablets. Down side it will make you thirsty and drowsy.

2) Eat like a king. Down side it will make you thirsty and drowsy.

3) Remove spray dodger or the sea will remove it. (Learnt the hard way)

4) Tune your HF radio to some loud music. The music if loud enough will make a force 9 seem like a force 8. It is not important for you to hear the wind howling through the rigging. (Other music playing devices suffice.) Great for the nerves.

5)Drop jib and go to triple reefed main or do you go straight to try sail? Only the skipper can decide.

6) Once hove to make a fray bentos and eat like a king again. Go to sleep with loud music.

7) This is very important. Have other options for surviving the gale. It is always good to know you have not reached your last option.

My experience is based on being heaved to 3 times.(Or is it hove)

First time. Triple reefed main for about 12 hours.

Second time. Triple reefed main for about 6 hours followed by tri sail for another 48. We lost the spray dodger as in it was destroyed and all the poles were crushed flat. Fortunately it did not rip out of the deck roof. Just before we heaved to(or is it hove) we took a freak wave from astern which put a lot of water in the saloon. We have deep bilges and we should have had the third board in. This could have been a problem in a shallow bilge yacht. I had a cup of tea in my hand at the time sat at nav table and not one bit of salt water got into it even though the chart myself and nav table were drenched. It took over half an hour to manually pump out the water. Lessons learnt Remove spray dodger in heavy weather. Felt horribly vulnerable in cot pit after that as well!( A false sense of vulnerability by the way)

We made the mistake of trying to sail to early. We had gotten used to the weather and sea motion by then and equated it to a moderation of the weather. We were wrong and went straight back to being hove to.

Third time Also the most complicated time. Hove to with tripple reefed main. We were then knocked down to about 90 degrees. Both of us were in our bunks as it is the safest place to be.(Netting type bunks) Mick my crew mate was hit by Jimmy Cornells world cruising routes that launched out of the far side of the saloon from port to starboard. Book was fine. It was the only thing that came lose so not bad effort in making the boat bang proof. I said to my sore crew mate we needed to put the tri sail up and then the sea anchor which we did. I had an old cargo aviation chute and decided not to use it as i would never get it back on board. We used a an old blade jib instead. The sea anchor did not go where it was expected but it did bring the bows around to provide a safer angle against the sea. We had no more problems after that. The sea anchor lay off and behind our port quarter. Not even close to any diagrams i had seen. (Was this caused by the ocean current?) who knows.
Were we in survival conditions? No. so my experience is not related to even worse sea states or wind. Nothing above force 9. The third time we reefed 60 knots were predicted in our area but fortunately we never got more than above 50 and only for a very short time. I would say the average wind speed was below 40. At no time did the sea state get confused other that the 2 rogue waves from second experience and third experience.

Some photos circa 2002 of second time heave to.

First photo. Look concearned about sea state. (Note cheap foul weather gear)
Second photo. Hard to make a cup of tea type of waves.
Third Photo. My best ship mate thinking we are right proper sailors as we have tri sail up.
Fourth photo. Fray Bentos while hove to.Am sat on floor as it seemed prudent for cooking in those seas. We lived like Kings.

[Dulls]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Hmm, I hadn't heard that.
The only time I thought there was a danger of sliding backwards was if the chute was undersized or else in a part of the wave train whereby it could break out of the wave...typically if the rode is too short.
I wonder how much stretch there will be in 100meters of nylon?
More research required I think...

I am also interested in why some are reluctant to have the boat head to wind/waves (apart from the obvious difficulty in setting it all up if it hasn't been done beforehand, and, perhaps the reluctance to go into a purely defensive state rather than actively running before it).

The sea anchor never stops you but reduces your movement which is part sideways down to half a knot or so maybe one to 1.5. Sliding back cannot be discounted and it depends on the shape of the waves. I have heaved to with a sea anchor (Jib used) and we never stopped and for the life of me i cannot remember what speed we drifted at. We were in the south Australian current at the time i think as well. I was also thinking that no one really has a true idea of heaving to as it is done so rarely.

[NevilleCat]

Yeah I guess I was only ever considering a proper sea anchor such as a ParaAnchor made in Vic by Para Anchors Australia rather than an emergency jib or old military chute etc.
Better than nothing for keeping head to wind, but the Para Anchor guys have been making them for years and have quite a database of tales too.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Neville,

I can not attest to anything, like I said “internet expert.” Just something I read. But 100M of nylon (laid not double braid) COULD stretch up to about 30M.

Wow OK.
I know that's what the Para Anchor guys reccomend.

[fxykty]

Regarding sliding backwards while lying to a parachute anchor, I believe that can be prevented by ‘constant tension rode’, which is accomplished with the addition of a weight so that the rode is always under tension. Not sure which manufacturer refers to this.

It’s the same concept as for a JSD, to help prevent the slack from stretch when the load is relaxed after a wave passes.