heaving to vs lying ahull

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

On a modern spade rudder surfing in itself is not dangerous. Hence I’ve never seen any need to have more drag then about 200 feet of warp in a U of the stern.

There’s no way you want to stop the yacht , bad idea. You merely want to slow her as she flies down the face of the wave.

We found in the big Gale with the warps deployed the AP could handle the boat for a while , giving the crew a much needed rest.

Can not see the need to slow the boat below 6-7 knots in a modern yacht.

Two questions, to build on your suggestions:

What would you do if you had limited searoom where a speed of 6-7 knots downwind was just not tenable for the expected duration of the storm?

And what do you do if you were shorthanded? A crew of two--at least in my experience--simply can not hand steer under those conditions for very long.

[robinco]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You’d also be well advised to query very dated advice like the pardeys which is based on hull forms and techniques not in common use today
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Few people can write up good storm tactics applicable to modern cruisers because sadly many didn’t survive.
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Hence my advice is based on my own experiences and observations in respect of modern fin keeled and spade rudder boats.

1. Always keep sailing if at all possible, I’m a fan of running off downwind. ( in the main)
2. Don’t stop the boat only slow it if you risk a broach. ( modern boats don’t take well to being pooped in my experience)
3. Boats are tougher then the crew.
......
You can’t learn storm tactics from a book , you learn it through experience. That’s how the pardeys learnt theirs and it how you will learn yours.

Seems you recommend to survive first, then learn from experience. Maybe a potentially risky way to learn.

If Pardeys' and Adlard Coles' advice are dated (I've read Pardeys "Storm Tactics"), then should someone like ourselves be better to rely instead on your advice in 1. 2. and 3. above? Maybe Pardeys advice is dated, but they survived. Lin is still going but Larry expired from non-sailing causes about 5 years ago in a care facility about 20 km up the road from where I am now.

We've never sailed open water in more than about 30 knots wind, but that could happen at any time. Our boat is 34ft and shaped underwater somewhat like a Beneteau of around 2000 vintage. Doesn't heave to very well. At least so far it's resisted my attempts.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...The key with modern boats is to leverage the better hydrodynamics over older designs. That’s means active steering that means keeping speed up near or just below normal ( I’m talking 40-45 footers here )

I agree with this, however, active steering means a very good autopilot or several good helmspersons.

A sister ship to my boat went through Fastnet the year several people and many boats were lost. I talked to one of the key crew members, a friend of mine, and I said, "You went through Fastnet, should I get a drogue or a sea anchor?"

He answered, "You know I believe in steering and going fast, but we had five helmspersons and we drove the boat, but it's just you and your wife, you can't steer for 12 hours, let alone three days."

I listened to him but I knew I would not have five crew, and I didn't trust autopilots of the day, so I got a good wind vane and learned how to set it. Maybe AP'S are better now, and I'd supplement my wind vane with an autopilot, but I would still put my trust in a simple, mechanical, non-electrical, wind vane, and that's what I'd use day in and day out and I do.

[MicHughV]

My boat was fitted with a Monitor Wind Vane in that storm, but for a lot of reasons, was not up to the task. The Monitor was supplemented by an electric AP at the wheel, but it likewise, was not up to the task.
The primary reason was that neither device could "anticipate" either wind or wave motion and direction and also could not react very fast.
Dragging a drogue also handicapped both.

Handsteering with only two aboard is a monumental task, no doubt about that.

There was another boat out there with us, although we did not see them, but were in touch via SSB. We found out later, that they were rolled mast down in the water. Fortunately, we did not experience that, though there were some "iffy" moments.

Neither my crew mate nor me had ever experienced such weather. We had both, off course, read many accounts of what to do in such a situation and we did try various things.

The storm did not spring up at once. It built over a period of days. For a while we tried heaving to, which worked quite well, but once the wind and waves picked up, we realized we needed to do something else. It was at this point, that it dawned on us, this was going to be a doozy.

This where we started to stream doubled up warps, anchors tied to fenders, etc, but we found that none of this worked.

Our makeshift drogue did do the trick. There are a variety of devices available on the market today that would likely do the same thing.

There is no getting around the fact, that with only two people, exhaustion soon becomes a major issue. You will be dressed in foulies, but more than likely be wet from head to do. Personal hygiene becomes a huge issue and I'll leave it at that.

Sustenance is another issue. As we did not want to open the companionway, we drank rainwater dripping of the boom. We both had some munchie bars in out fouly pockets, but these were gone in the first day.

Looking back, there were things I could have and should have done, but didn't. An easily grabbed source of food and water would be high on that list. Being tired is one thing, but being hungry and tired kicks it up a notch.

Besides the other sailboat out there, we were on our own. During the day, one could see, but at night, it was totally dark.

I will confess, I was asking myself, what on earth am I doing out here, what madness possessed me to live on a boat?

You can read all you want, but finding yourself in this type of situation, will require you to dig deep and try whatever you can that works. I don't think there is a " how to" manual, you'll have to find what works to suit your situation.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Handsteering with only two aboard is a monumental task, no doubt about that.

You can read all you want, but finding yourself in this type of situation, will require you to dig deep and try whatever you can that works. I don't think there is a " how to" manual, you'll have to find what works to suit your situation.

A voice of experience.. sobering innit..