Helm control while docking

[rha9]

You might want to look at a site Attainable Adventure Cruising,
https://www.morganscloud.com/categor...-book-docking/

great discussion of all the factors involved. Once you understand the mechanics as described here it will be easier to figure out what to do in various situations.

Great resource for loads of other topics as well.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Let's get an answer from those saying that, by prop walk, they back to starboard and the bow swings to port in reverse. Does this mean you have engines with left-hand rotation? That's the only way that I can make any sense of this.

A normal engine rotates left(CCW) when viewed from the rear.
A straight thru gearbox,as used by Volvo,Borg Warner & many large commercial gears will turn the prop CCW (Left) in forward gear.This helps avoid overheating & wear caused by gears turning while in forward-the most common position .

Small boat gearboxes (Hurth,Kanzaki,etc),in order to get the prop shaft as low as possible in the bilge,put a gear on the g-box input shaft,meshed with & mounted over top of a gear on the output shaft. This reverses the CCW Left input to a CW Right output,resulting in the need for a CW Right hand (when viewd from rear) prop.It also means that gears are meshed & turning(heating) at all times in forward.



In Reverse,the CCW Left hand prop turns CW Right, & claws the stern to STBD.
A Right Hand/CW prop turns CCW in reverse,clawing the stern to Port.


The rudder has absolutely no effect in reverse,until the boat starts moving at a kt or more backwards.


The OP must have a Right hand CCW prop.


His bow swings to the left in reverse because :
1. cutaway keel allows a vessel to slide the bow sideways quickly for sharper turns. (Novi lobster boats can turn on a dime because of this)
2. Left prop claws to right in reverse,pivoting bow to left. Should come to dock at a wider angle (30+ deg),use a 1/2 throttle-1 sec. burst of reverse & then neutral,to lay her alongside dock. Then put midship line out. You're docked.


"Troublesome" prop walk only occurs when you go beyond the 1 sec. bursts of Rev-then N. Idling in reverse is a poor idea until you get enough way on for the rudder to bite. Don't idle in reverse around the dock unless you are tied.


Practice docking out at a buoy with lots of room,no traffic & no peanut gallery & preferably alone/no passengers.


Cheers/Len


Not how little he uses the steering wheel & note that he only uses brief bursts of reverse when maneuvering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCY1XVkZhy0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dxEG05lDU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKu9s2MC-cw

PROP WALK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l55FuEmX8U8

[SV__Grace]

1. Best single handed technique for docking that I've encountered is the running stern bridle described in this thread by another poster and brilliantly illustrated by Duncan Wells in his book Stress Free Sailing. He has a great video of this in his Vimeo channel - https://vimeo.com/397130885. I've tried it and it works well.

2. Alternatively, it's a simple skill to lasso the cleat (using midship line) and pull yourself in. Attach your docking line to the midship cleat (or toerail or other point if you don't have a midship cleat), hold the bitter end in one hand and throw the bight over the cleat with the other. Doesn't work for bull rails, but a grappling hook works well. Here's one that is purpose built for docking and can be used in place of lassoing the cleat.

3. Learn to crab. If you know how to use your prop walk to spin your boat in the direction of prop wash, you're halfway there.

First, there seems to be some confusion about direction of prop walk- right hand rotating props (most common in US) walk to port in reverse (bow to SB), and left hand rotating props (common in europe) walk to SB is reverse (bow to port). I have a european boat and it was hard to get used to SB prop walk, then did an engine refit and now have port prop walk again.

Prop "walk" refers to reverse, and prop "wash" refers to forward.

Crabbing your boat sideways involves turning the rudder in the direction of prop walk and using a combination of reverse to move your stern in the direction of prop walk, with bursts forward to move your bow in the same direction. This only works in the direction of prop walk but mastering this skill will amaze others and help you let go of being jealous of boats that have thrusters.

Because I'm getting old and can forget things at the oddest times, I created a label to stick on the helm as a reminder- "Spin to SB | Crab to Port."

All of my docking fails have been times I've tried to go in the direction counter to prop walk and wash and have learned the hard way to ALWAYS navigate in close quarters and dock in the direction of prop walk, even if it means looking weird and making a 360 before approaching or leaving the dock.

[Bill Seal]

A trick I learned here on CF is when backing the channel from my slip, the stern swings to port, I give it hard right rudder run the engine at about 1100 or so, if I'm about to nail a boat on my port side, I just put it into neutral and let the rudder take over, and if I start going too hard to stbd, I put it back into reverse and let prop walk take command.
Or we just give up and take it out of the slip and turn it around by hand and go out forward.

[Clivevon]

To the OP: It helps to understand exactly what is really happening here. I'm sure you do, but others may not, so..
Your boat is going to handle in a very individual way. Lets forget about your bow for a minute & focus on your stern, assuming the boat is dead in the water - not moving.
Your rudder is immediately behind your prop so in forward gear, even when stationary, a burst of throttle will send a pulse of water back over your rudder, called propwash (not propwalk- see below). If your rudder is turned to starboard, part of that propwash will deflect off your rudder & push your stern to port. Or to starboard if the rudder is turned to port. How much depends on how far you have turned your rudder. No forward motion at this point due to the boats inertia, but the stern will tend to swing.
However you have a keel hung rudder with a cutout for the prop, so much of the water will be going straight back, limiting the propwash turning effect on your boat. You also have a deep long keel which will act as a brake on this propwash turning effect.

You will also know about propwalk - your propellor will try to "walk" through the water in the direction in which it is turning - like a rolling wheel. Many (but not all) engines (& so props) turn anti-clockwise in reverse gear when viewed from astern, tending to swing the stern to port. The rudder has no effect - as the boat is not moving, & the propwash in astern is all going forward, not going back over the rudder.

On my boat, I can use propwash & propwalk to spin the boat 180 degrees or more in her own length while stationary, by turning the rudder to starboard & keeping it there, using short but definite bursts of throttle alternatively ahead & astern but going back to tickover before the boat overcomes the inertia & starts moving forward or back. It has to be clockwise though, if I tried anticlockwise it just will not work. You have to work with the astern propwalk.

[deblen]

A vid. on reversing tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxCYcVbbXkA

[Clivevon]

So your propwalk & propwash are swinging your boats stern. As the boats centre of resistance is somewhere amidships, your bow then has also to move but in the opposite direction to the stern.
These effects on my boat are such that if given any choice, I will always come alongside port side to, so my cockpit swings in towards the dock when I stop in reverse. I might even turn through 180 degrees beforehand so as to do that.
My home berth was chosen accordingly. It is starboard side to but on the starboard side of a narrow dead end channel in the marina, allowing me to make a sharp 90 degree clockwise turn while stopped just off the dock, before nosing bows in between my short finger berth & the boat next door - all fenders deployed. Marina space here is so expensive the docks are laid out with sliderules to cram in the maximum number of boats. Having enough room for your fenders to hang free is not a given.
To ensure the boat stops before it can possibly hit the main crossways pontoon, I leave a rope on the dock, secured to the dock cleat at the precise length needed, to pick up with a boathook on my way in & drop over the midships cleat.
So for me, its all about understanding & working with your own individual boat & how it handles.
Hope that helps.

[Clivevon]

I wouldnt bother with the video unless you have a boat like they use - short fin keel, saildrive mounted prop a long way ahead of the rudder, balanced spade rudder.
The OP has a long keel, shaft mounted prop immediately ahead of the rudder, & an unbalanced keel hung rudder - the video wont help him at all. His boat wont steer in reverse until he's doing 3 knots which is way too fast at close quarters.

[Clivevon]

Unless you are backing up into a gale of course, then his bow & rig windage forward will keep his stern dead into wind.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Unless you are backing up into a gale of course, then his bow & rig windage forward will keep his stern dead into wind.

Who are you responding to?

[valhalla360]

The best thing you can do is practice. Go find a big empty slip and go in and out until you are comfortable finding a smaller slip to try.

The second best thing you can do is work with what the boat wants to do.

If you can come in from the opposite direction or switch to a slip on the opposite side of the fairway, you can use that turn when you throw it in reverse to your favor.

Alternatively, just before throwing it in reverse, turn the wheel the opposite way, so it cancels out the prop walk. (if you've been practicing, you should have a really good feel for it).

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The best thing you can do is practice. Go find a big empty slip and go in and out until you are comfortable finding a smaller slip to try.

I fully support this. When there's little wind and little traffic, eg in the morning, go out and drive around your marina in reverse. Once you feel comfortable doing this and try to touch-and-go dock in various places. You'll be surprised how quickly you get the hang of your boat?

How I know this? My boat when starting in reverse has only one direction: Port into the the mooring of the neighbour. After only a few practice sessions, at least in calm weather, I don't make a fool of myself backing out of the berth in most cases.

[Hudson Force]

[QUOTE=deblen;3430151].............
........................ "Troublesome" prop walk only occurs when you go beyond the 1 sec. bursts of Rev-then N. Idling in reverse is a poor idea until you get enough way on for the rudder to bite.................[QUOTE]

All this sounds good, Len, but l would encourage people to consider the prop walk as a steerage tool instead of being troublesome. Once you know your prop walk characteristics, it's far easier to align your vessel with the expectation of the "walk". I could always greatly increase the movement of my stern to port with a short burst of higher rpm and use it as a turning tool.

I guess the bottom line is that we all need to learn how to maneuver our boats!

[deblen]

[QUOTE=Hudson Force;3430200][QUOTE=deblen;3430151].............
........................ "Troublesome" prop walk only occurs when you go beyond the 1 sec. bursts of Rev-then N. Idling in reverse is a poor idea until you get enough way on for the rudder to bite.................

All this sounds good, Len, but l would encourage people to consider the prop walk as a steerage tool instead of being troublesome. Once you know your prop walk characteristics, it's far easier to align your vessel with the expectation of the "walk". I could always greatly increase the movement of my stern to port with a short burst of higher rpm and use it as a turning tool.

I guess the bottom line is that we all need to learn how to maneuver our boats!

I agree. What I meant by "troublesome" was when prop walk takes control of the vessel from the pilot & he/she can't/don't regain control.


Backing at idle with no amount of way on lets prop walk take control.


I submit that in many docking cases, prop walk only needs to be used to slide the stern sideways towards the dock . A short agressive throttle reverse burst & then Neutral will stop fwd momentum & park the boat next to dock so that you can step ashore safely & tie the midship line.


IMHO we should all gain this "tight quarters manuevering" ability by practicing until we are confidant. It is equally,if not more,important than any other operation on the vessel.

You can't learn it from books or videos.
I post the videos to show that it can be done,regardless of your keel/rudder/etc. things we all use as excuses for our particular situation.
Cheers/Len

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by deblen

...............

You can't learn it from books or videos.......... Cheers/Len

I think this is the key. I remember my best learning was playing around a crab trap float away from the docks. From all points, approaching with the bow and backing to the trap float, ... 'putting the float at midships starboard and port. I would advise people to make all the maneuvers where they can't get into trouble so they can apply their skills in tight quarters with confidence. 'and to repeat the practice with different current and wind conditions.