How to use a snubber with a bowsprit?

[poiu]

Here’s a picture of the bowsprit. I can’t work out the best way to install a snubber to the anchor chain. As the picture shows when the boat swings one of the bridle lines chafes on the bow of the boat. I’d rather it didn’t.

I’ve been watching how others do it and I don’t like much what is done usually, which is to run a snubber line on or under the chain. Fine for the mostly moderate conditions, but not when windy. The problem is chafe to the snubber and it puts the side load from sailing at anchor further forwards on the bowsprit, which doesn’t seem appropriate to me.

Any thoughts?

[PippaB]

You can do what many cat sailors do and use an eye near the waterline. Perhaps even the one to which the bobstay is connected, leaving the evaluation of suitability to you. This also increases effective scope.

If you use a fixed snubber then all done. If you use/want an adjustable snubber then you can put a low friction ring or block at that location and pass the snubber through and up to the deck, selecting the exact location of the turning device to limit chafe.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by PippaB

You can do what many cat sailors do and use an eye near the waterline. Perhaps even the one to which the bobstay is connected, leaving the evaluation of suitability to you. This also increases effective scope.

If you use a fixed snubber then all done. If you use/want an adjustable snubber then you can put a low friction ring or block at that location and pass the snubber through and up to the deck, selecting the exact location of the turning device to limit chafe.

Yes, I thought of beefing up the bobstay fitting. As you say, it increases scope usefully. It’s a big job, expensive, requires engineering and has aesthetic implications too. I’m hoping for another way. There ought to be a good way. Most modern monohulls have bowsprits now.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by poiu

Here’s a picture of the bowsprit. I can’t work out the best way to install a snubber to the anchor chain. As the picture shows when the boat swings one of the bridle lines chafes on the bow of the boat. I’d rather it didn’t.

I’ve been watching how others do it and I don’t like much what is done usually, which is to run a snubber line on or under the chain. Fine for the mostly moderate conditions, but not when windy. The problem is chafe to the snubber and it puts the side load from sailing at anchor further forwards on the bowsprit, which doesn’t seem appropriate to me.

Any thoughts?

I can't see how your chain runs in your bowsprit. But I have a bowsprit in my boat also, and usually run my snubber line on the chain. I've anchored in pretty feisty weather and have on occasion put chafe protection on my line where it runs through my bowsprit. I'm not sure why you feel why running that line further forward would not be appropriate.

On my boat, it usually sails less at anchor running my line like that. I have used a bridal running off the side fairleads and but that usually is not as stable. There have been a couple times when that was not the case and using the bridal worked better, but 95% of the time my boat is more stable with the line running along the chain going out my bowsprit. There is the problem when running a bridal that the lines chafe on the the bobstay, something I don't like and it's much harder to put and keep chafe protection at that location.

I think you need to try different setups to see how your boat behaves. But I like the single line running along my chain and coming out of the bowsprit at the same connection point as the chain runs out.

dj

[poiu]

Originally Posted by dlj

I can't see how your chain runs in your bowsprit. But I have a bowsprit in my boat also, and usually run my snubber line on the chain. I've anchored in pretty feisty weather and have on occasion put chafe protection on my line where it runs through my bowsprit. I'm not sure why you feel why running that line further forward would not be appropriate.

On my boat, it usually sails less at anchor running my line like that. I have used a bridal running off the side fairleads and but that usually is not as stable. There have been a couple times when that was not the case and using the bridal worked better, but 95% of the time my boat is more stable with the line running along the chain going out my bowsprit. There is the problem when running a bridal that the lines chafe on the the bobstay, something I don't like and it's much harder to put and keep chafe protection at that location.

I think you need to try different setups to see how your boat behaves. But I like the single line running along my chain and coming out of the bowsprit at the same connection point as the chain runs out.

dj

It won’t work for my boat. The problem which I admit is hard to see from the picture is that the chain runs from the below deck windlass through a pipe in the bow to a set of rollers inset into the bowsprit, then it drops down over a low slung roller about 1.3m in front of the boat. There is no room for a snubber rope in the pipe as it is full with chain.

The 1.3m long lever arm is what concerns me. An anchor in storm conditions will impose many times the load the sails ever subject the boat to and whilst I don’t really know exactly what load it can cope with it the the steel roller fitting is certainly not substantial enough.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by poiu

It won’t work for my boat. The problem which I admit is hard to see from the picture is that the chain runs from the below deck windlass through a pipe in the bow to a set of rollers inset into the bowsprit, then it drops down over a low slung roller about 1.3m in front of the boat. There is no room for a snubber rope in the pipe as it is full with chain.

The 1.3m long lever arm is what concerns me. An anchor in storm conditions will impose many times the load the sails ever subject the boat to and whilst I don’t really know exactly what load it can cope with it the the steel roller fitting is certainly not substantial enough.

Ah, very different bowsprit... So some type of bridal sure looks like what you have to figure out...

dj

[Madehn]

Not ideal but what about just putting chafe protection on both legs of the bridle where it is going to contact the bow. I’m thinking some stout canvas over the rope and secured with stitching?

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Madehn

Not ideal but what about just putting chafe protection on both legs of the bridle where it is going to contact the bow. I’m thinking some stout canvas over the rope and secured with stitching?

If I can't find a good chafe free fix then that's what I will do. With dyneema sleeving as it's pretty soft.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

It won’t work for my boat. The problem which I admit is hard to see from the picture is that the chain runs from the below deck windlass through a pipe in the bow to a set of rollers inset into the bowsprit, then it drops down over a low slung roller about 1.3m in front of the boat. There is no room for a snubber rope in the pipe as it is full with chain.

The 1.3m long lever arm is what concerns me. An anchor in storm conditions will impose many times the load the sails ever subject the boat to and whilst I don’t really know exactly what load it can cope with it the the steel roller fitting is certainly not substantial enough.

In that case, I think you don't have much choice except to beef up the bobstay fitting.

But do you actually use a snubber much? Bigger boats with heavier chain don't normally need them except in really rough weather. Ships don't use them, right? I don't think I've used a snubber on my boat in years. There's nothing like a third of a tonne of 1/2" chain to snub your motion at anchor.

FWIW, I run my snubber (on the rare occasions I use it) through roller fairleads to my bow cleats. That might be another option for you. Having the snubber fixed slightly off centre does stabilize the boat a bit, and would normally keep the snubber off whatever you've got fixed to the bow.


You certainly don't want it running over that long lever arm of your bowsprit, as you have correctly surmised.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In that case, I think you don't have much choice except to beef up the bobstay fitting.

But do you actually use a snubber much? Bigger boats with heavier chain don't normally need them except in really rough weather. Ships don't use them, right? I don't think I've used a snubber on my boat in years. There's nothing like a third of a tonne of 1/2" chain to snub your motion at anchor.

FWIW, I run my snubber (on the rare occasions I use it) through roller fairleads to my bow cleats. That might be another option for you. Having the snubber fixed slightly off centre does stabilize the boat a bit, and would normally keep the snubber off whatever you've got fixed to the bow.


You certainly don't want it running over that long lever arm of your bowsprit, as you have correctly surmised.

I’m sure there is something in what you say and it is true bigger boats and ships don’t need one and in the generally light conditions of the Tyrrhannea sea here even small boats don’t often bother rigging one.

I’d like to prepare for the worst and reduce the load on the anchor if a storm appears, when it is most needed. What’s more I don’t have a chain stopper, so the snubber does the important job of unloading the windlass. It keeps noise down too. The chain graunches a fair bit on the bow rollers without the snubber and I sleep near the noise.

[hpeer]

I had similar issues. I also had to replace my bow sprit.

I beefed up the sprit and moved the entire anchor assembly forward. The anchor does not foul the Bob stay and I run my snubbed out over the roller back to a mid ship cleat.

40,000 pound boat, 1/2" Nylon snubbed, 30ish feet deployed. It breaks once in a while. But it also does a good job of smoothing the ride. We anchor out a lot.

[Kettlewell]

Probably won't work for your windlass, but if you use a shorter length of chain, say 50 feet or so, then rope rode spliced into the chain you don't need the snubber--just let out enough rope to ease the load. I've moved back to that arrangement since I rarely anchor these days where chafe on the bottom is a concern.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But do you actually use a snubber much? Bigger boats with heavier chain don't normally need them except in really rough weather. Ships don't use them, right? I don't think I've used a snubber on my boat in years. There's nothing like a third of a tonne of 1/2" chain to snub your motion at anchor.

I run all chain rode, and I always use a snubber - well - I run a nylon line that is attached to the chain. But my set-up is very easy to deploy this. I also do not have a chain stopper, something I'm considering adding in, but it's a bit complicated...

Someone posted above they use a 1/2 inch line on a boat about twice the size (in weight) as mine - I run about 22000 pounds. I do deploy about the same length as was they stated. I use 7/8 inch line and have considered to go bigger. I was mostly anchoring out.

dj

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

I’m sure there is something in what you say and it is true bigger boats and ships don’t need one and in the generally light conditions of the Tyrrhannea sea here even small boats don’t often bother rigging one.

I’d like to prepare for the worst and reduce the load on the anchor if a storm appears, when it is most needed. What’s more I don’t have a chain stopper, so the snubber does the important job of unloading the windlass. It keeps noise down too. The chain graunches a fair bit on the bow rollers without the snubber and I sleep near the noise.

OK, first of all, you really, really need a chain stopper, or some other method of belaying the chain. The snubber does NOT fulfill this purpose.


A snubber cannot fulfill both snubbing and belaying purposes because once it has enough elasticity to be an effective snubber, it already cannot be strong or chafe-resistant enough to be an effective belay (unless it is impractically long).


The Lewmar, Quick and Lofrans chain stoppers are all good. If for some reason you don't want to use one of those, you can make a strop out of dyneema spliced to a chain hook and use that. You can loop the other end around a bow cleat or a samson post if you have one.



The job here is not to "unload the windlass" but to secure the chain to the boat. Any less strong of an attachment than the full strength of the chain is a weak point in your ground tackle.


I never leave the chain deployed but unbelayed even for a minute -- not even for setting the anchor. The windlass is only for raising or lowering the chain; the clutch should be set so that it will slip with any kind of load, to protect the worm drive in the windlass.


So with the chain belayed with a (in my case stainless steel chain belaying strop, but dyneema would be better), I don't rig a snubber unless there is a material chance of significant wave action or enough wind (>30kn) to seriously load up the chain. So very rarely. With all the chain out, 100m of 1/2" short link, the ride is plush, especially in deeper water.


I used to keep a variety of snubbers for different conditions, light (16mm) shorter (6m) ones for light conditions, then heavier longer ones for stronger conditions, but some time ago I stopped keeping any but the heavy weather ones.


Use of snubbers was inculcated in my almost as a religious practice by my father, and I indeed used them almost religiously, never questioning the need for them, until challenged on this Forum by someone some years ago, I think it was a former pro mariner with a similar size boat to mine who rarely used a snubber. I argued with him for some time before I started to understand he might be right and then tried it for myself. And have rarely used a snubber ever since. I even went through a significant storm in Greenland in very deep water and on quite short scope -- without a snubber -- and never had any problem. I wouldn't do that in shallower water though.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hpeer

. . . 40,000 pound boat, 1/2" Nylon snubbed, 30ish feet deployed. It breaks once in a while. But it also does a good job of smoothing the ride. We anchor out a lot.

THIS is why you don't use a snubber instead of a chain stopper.


For a snubber to do its job, it should be working, stretching, and any rope, especially nylon, which is being regularly stretched to more than a couple percent of its length, is highly vulnerable to chafe and to sudden failure. This should NEVER be your only attachment to the chain (the windlass doesn't count).