I Get Teased About Nautical Terms

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Let's just start with "sheet"

There are two major catergories of running rigging:

One's that make make sails go up and down.
Ones that make sails go side to side (or in and out)

It is extremely useful to have two distinct terms for them to avoid confusion.

You can call them upandowners and sidetosiders if you want, but they've been called halyards and sheets for centuries and any experienced sailor will immediately know what you mean when you say the "main sheet" or the "main halyard" and there is no confusion. Would you prefer us to all start using the term "in and out rope for the biggest sail" instead of "mainsheet"?

Every technical area of expertise has it's set of commonly understood terms to differentiate similar objects in common use There are sound reasons for this. Just because non-practitioners are not au fait with these terms is no reason to discard them.

[Gone Gypsy]

To make it worse - true sailors have difficulty outside their own language. Most English nautical terms do not directly translate to other language nautical terms. A sheet is not a feuille on a French crewed boat - it is une écoute which directly translates to English as listening. Perhaps the UN could work on this serious global problem.

[sgrimm]

I think it's good for everyone to learn the correct terms and names for parts of the boat. For crew with experience it saves a lot of time when providing directions. But it should never be used to make someone feel stupid for not knowing or using the right term.

I usually try to use the right term (and yes, I'm not perfect either), followed by some additional guidance if I feel it's needed. "Tighten main, give that white rope there a good pull." And then after a while all you need to say is "tighten main".

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by sgrimm

... "Tighten main, give that white rope there a good pull." And then after a while all you need to say is "tighten main".

That would be "trim the main" to tighten and "ease the main" to let it out. Not tighten or loosen. Perhaps the added connotation of this order is to tighten the sheet as needed to get the correct sail shape, not to tighten until I say stop.


I might say "haul in the barber hauler 6 inches and then trim the jib" if I had a specific action in mind.

[Dave_S]

Sheet or halyard ?

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by StuM

There are two major catergories of running rigging:

One's that make make sails go up and down.
Ones that make sails go side to side (or in and out)

It is extremely useful to have two distinct terms for them to avoid confusion.

You can call them upandowners and sidetosiders if you want, but they've been called halyards and sheets for centuries and any experienced sailor will immediately know what you mean when you say the "main sheet" or the "main halyard" and there is no confusion. Would you prefer us to all start using the term "in and out rope for the biggest sail" instead of "mainsheet"?

Every technical area of expertise has it's set of commonly understood terms to differentiate similar objects in common use There are sound reasons for this. Just because non-practitioners are not au fait with these terms is no reason to discard them.

"and any experienced sailor will immediately know what you mean"

There's the problem.

I can speak fluent yachty, but I wouldn't do it with my mates. One, they wouldn't know what I was asking and two, they would think I was a being a ......

Some terms are useful and some necessary, I like port and starboard as they are definitive without perspective but there are some nonsensical or seemingly misleading terms that could do with an upgrade.

When was the last time anyone said weigh the anchor? It will change but not soon enough IMO.

If I was with sailors, I'd say tighten the main halyard but with my mates I'd say tighten the front of the main sail. The correct term says you want the line/rope tighter, the second instruction says what you want achieved, you don't care if the line is tight but the secondary effect of that is the luff will be pulled tighter. It's like it is designed to be difficult, descriptive terms of the result you want surely is a better way for someone to understand what's required and to learn.

[SailRN]

I agree with StuM and others "Every technical area of expertise has it's set of commonly understood terms to differentiate similar objects in common use There are sound reasons for this."


Other responses talking "like, you know, tighten that thingy." leads me to share my favorite of all nautical terms:


ARRRGGGHHH!

[rondelais]

I thought “clothesline” was a football term.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SJ2581

translate to other language nautical terms. A sheet is not a feuille on a French crewed boat - it is une écoute which directly translates to English as listening. Perhaps the UN could work on this serious global problem.

WHy would you expect to be.



A bat is not a chauve-souris in a french baseball game.)
Two differnt meansings of "bat", two different meanings of "sheet".

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

"and any experienced sailor will immediately know what you mean"

There's the problem.

I can speak fluent yachty, but I wouldn't do it with my mates. One, they wouldn't know what I was asking and two, they would think I was a being a ......

Some terms are useful and some necessary, I like port and starboard as they are definitive without perspective but there are some nonsensical or seemingly misleading terms that could do with an upgrade.

When was the last time anyone said weigh the anchor? It will change but not soon enough IMO.

If I was with sailors, I'd say tighten the main halyard but with my mates I'd say tighten the front of the main sail. The correct term says you want the line/rope tighter, the second instruction says what you want achieved, you don't care if the line is tight but the secondary effect of that is the luff will be pulled tighter. It's like it is designed to be difficult, descriptive terms of the result you want surely is a better way for someone to understand what's required and to learn.

Interesting. I started this thread about simplifying speach and reducing ambiguity.


Weigh anchor. Yes, I use that one a lot. I can't think of a shorter version and everyone seems to understand. Perhaps most often, however, I just say "let's get out of here," followed by "you drive" as I walk up to the bow. They know the drill and and that I will direct them with hand signals over the anchor, and that I will handle the rest. Once the anchors is up, I usually just say "she's all yours," meaning "look around, motor safely out of the anchorage, and towards the point where we will probably raise sail, but we'll talk before that." But if they asked "what are we doing next," I'd say we were going to weigh anchor. I think even the most profound lubber has hear "Anchors Aweigh" and would not be confused.



Halyard. I learned that the rope that hauls a flag up the pole is a halyard in about 3rd grade. So no I would not ask them to tighten the front of the mainsail. That is more words and is more confusing. Tighten the halyard or downhaul (or Cunningham) is simpler. As needed, I would point out which line or tackle that was, after which the function would be obvious.


It's not about avoiding jargon. It's about clarity and brevity. I wouldn't say plug in the rectangular computer plug about 1/2-inch wide by 1/8-inch thick to avoid saying USB.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

with my mates I'd say tighten the front of the main sail.

Yes skipper,
Do you want me to do that using the halyard, the cunningham or a backstay adjustment?

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Interesting. I started this thread about simplifying speach and reducing ambiguity.


Weigh anchor. Yes, I use that one a lot. I can't think of a shorter version and everyone seems to understand. Perhaps most often, however, I just say "let's get out of here," followed by "you drive" as I walk up to the bow. They know the drill and and that I will direct them with hand signals over the anchor, and that I will handle the rest. Once the anchors is up, I usually just say "she's all yours," meaning "look around, motor safely out of the anchorage, and towards the point where we will probably raise sail, but we'll talk before that." But if they asked "what are we doing next," I'd say we were going to weigh anchor. I think even the most profound lubber has hear "Anchors Aweigh" and would not be confused.



Halyard. I learned that the rope that hauls a flag up the pole is a halyard in about 3rd grade. So no I would not ask them to tighten the front of the mainsail. That is more words and is more confusing. Tighten the halyard or downhaul (or Cunningham) is simpler. As needed, I would point out which line or tackle that was, after which the function would be obvious.


It's not about avoiding jargon. It's about clarity and brevity. I wouldn't say plug in the rectangular computer plug about 1/2-inch wide by 1/8-inch thick to avoid saying USB.

Weigh anchor. Yes, I use that one a lot.

So your one holding us back ���. (they are supposed to be smiling faces)

I don't see much need for shortening the language on a sail boat, there are instances off a boat where it is needed or an advantage but on a boat I vote for clarity for all on board, much safer.

I would agree most people over 40 probably have a vague idea of what weigh the anchor means but they won't be 100% sure. I bet if you asked a 18yo you would hear back, huh, what, or about 20 kilograms. But if you said raise the anchor or bring the anchor up or similar, you would get the desired result.

Ask non boaties what the difference between anchors aweigh and weigh anchor is and they won't know. I would also bet half the sailors won't know either.

P.S. I bet you just looked it up, I did ��

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Ask non boaties what the difference between anchors aweigh and weigh anchor is and they won't know.

Ask non computer technies the difference between HDMI and DisplayPort and they won't know either.

In both cases, the non-boatie or non-technie don't need to know, the actual boatie/technie should know.

In the anchor case, one is an adjective (a state of being) and one is a verb (an instruction to perform an action).

[mlydon]

Quote from stu m
“ Would you prefer us to all start using the term "in and out rope for the biggest sail" instead of "mainsheet"?

This sounds exactly how a lot of things are named in German

Matt

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Quote from stu m
“ Would you prefer us to all start using the term "in and out rope for the biggest sail" instead of "mainsheet"?

This sounds exactly how a lot of things are named in German

Matt

When I taught SCUBA the German manual had more pages than the same manual in any other language.