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webejammin · 06-12-2011, 21:45

How did your rudders fair ? Were they in the up position ?

Mr B · 07-12-2011, 01:47

That was the first thing I did, Lifted the rudders as they were sitting on the ground.
Could not lift the motor as it was dug in.

**GordMay** · 07-12-2011, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr B

First cab off the rack when I get home is two new anchors I will make myself,
Copys of the Rocna type anchor, These ones wont drag as they will be heavy enough to sink in anything and stay there ...

Anchors don’t “sink”, of their own volition; they have to be “set”.

Although my mantra has always been, that, when it comes to anchors, “bigger is better”; that may not be precisely true.
An anchor might be so large or heavy, that the power available may not be sufficient to set it. In this case, it would be too big (for the application); and acting as a mere “dead weight”.

Make certain that your boat has sufficient reverse power to actually set the proposed anchor into the bottom.

malbert73 · 07-12-2011, 06:17

Also, if you're sailing a Gemini, the weight of the anchor you propose on the bow may have a significant performance tradeoff when combined with anchor chain weight.

Mr B · 07-12-2011, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by malbert73

Also, if you're sailing a Gemini, the weight of the anchor you propose on the bow may have a significant performance tradeoff when combined with anchor chain weight.

They are not going to be anchors for the Queen Mary.
Probably about 60 KGs each,
I already weigh nearly 10 tons, 20 or so extra Kgs wont make a difference,
I am a cruiser, not a racer.
My rear anchor weighs that now, But is bloody useless.
The front one doesnt weigh much at all. The sand anchor. its too lite anyway,

I can set both new anchors and get a good nights sleep instead of sitting up all night waiting for crap anchors to start dragging,

High speed performance is not an issue, I have a very fast motorcycle for that. Hahahahahaha

Waterway Guide · 07-12-2011, 07:48

Everyone's going to have their favorite anchors and will defend them to the end, so I won't mention brands. Our Gemini 105Mc keeps a 35# and a 22#, plus 25' chain and 200+' line for each in her anchor locker without any load problems (we keep a 3rd anchor/rode aft). I think another 25'-50' of chain could be added without problem, but we haven't needed it where we cruise, and since I'm the windlass, that's a little too heavy for me.

My best anchoring advice:
1) Have at least 2 different styles of anchors so you can get a good hold on different bottoms,
2) Always use 5:1 - 7:1 scope, especially when setting the anchor (since most of the rode will be line on most Geminis)
3) Always back down to firmly set the anchor (I still can't believe how many times I see cruisers NOT doing this). I slowly take it up to 3000 RPMs in reverse...if I drag, then I know I will also drag in a high wind, so I re-anchor and try again.
4) Use bahamian moor when in an area with strong tidal shift, or if high winds are expected to shift directions abruptly.

foggysail · 07-12-2011, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Anchors don’t “sink”, of their own volition; they have to be “set”.

Although my mantra has always been, that, when it comes to anchors, “bigger is better”; that may not be precisely true.
An anchor might be so large or heavy, that the power available may not be sufficient to set it.

Yes--- size is not everything at least when it comes to anchors as I once thought. I am not sure though if its a power related issue for proper setting. It could be that a smaller anchor has better ability to bury itself. On this, I really do not know. One would have to dive and check out the setting.

But what I do know is that I traversed from a 44# Bruce to a 55# Delta to an 88# Delta all with 5/16HT chain. NOT ONE OF THOSE ANCHORS could I rely on and I set each of them using both of my GM 454 Crusader engines powered to the point I felt near the danger point for my cleats.

I now have an 80# Max Supreme on the bow waiting for my first opportunity to anchor next season.

Foggy

webejammin · 07-12-2011, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr B

That was the first thing I did, Lifted the rudders as they were sitting on the ground.
Could not lift the motor as it was dug in.

Hope you can dig out your out drive and not damage it, the yoaks are not that strong.

I would add anchor advice but I think you will deal with that when you get to your welder. We use 3/8" chain at 2 pounds per foot and 75 ft of chain it will not really overload your bow,It's like a 200lb person standing on the bow. I even have a Quick 1000 windless mounted just foward of the anchor locker. I should send a pic, ours work really great and saves our backs.

Mr B · 07-12-2011, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by webejammin

Hope you can dig out your out drive and not damage it, the yoaks are not that strong.

I would add anchor advice but I think you will deal with that when you get to your welder. We use 3/8" chain at 2 pounds per foot and 75 ft of chain it will not really overload your bow,It's like a 200lb person standing on the bow. I even have a Quick 1000 windless mounted just foward of the anchor locker. I should send a pic, ours work really great and saves our backs.

I would like a piccy of the quick 1000.

**Jim Cate** · 07-12-2011, 18:13

Mr B,

I too am sorry that your learning curve has been so dramatic, and hope that retrieval from Broughton goes well.

But, I think that someone should point out to you that anchoring in 7 feet depth and only 100 feet off the beach is not such a hot idea. Why? Well, in 7 feet if ANY surge builds up (doesn't need "screaming winds") you will be in the surf line. And at only 100 feet off the beach, you have no buffer zone if something goes wrong. And anchoring bow and stern as you were, only one anchor is really holding you... you didn't drag both anchors, only the windward one.

Finally, I can understand your reaction to this incident, but really, two 80 kg anchors is silly on your boat. A little research will likely show you that somewhat smaller hooks will be completely adequate for your boat.

You know, sad experiences like this are why we often suggest that newbie cruisers take smaller steps as they ascend the learning curve. The fact that you had mostly been lying to moorings rather than gathering anchoring experience is a perfect example.

Please don't take this as dumping on you. I think that you have done well in recovering from a bad situation, and Ann and I both wish you well in the repairs and eventual continuation of your journey.

Oh... don't let this keep you from returning to Broughton sometime in the future -- is it is a very useful and kinda picturesque stop on a coastal passage.

Cheers,

Jim

cat man do · 07-12-2011, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr B

I would like a piccy of the quick 1000.

Quick 1000 windlass - Google Search

malbert73 · 07-12-2011, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr B

They are not going to be anchors for the Queen Mary.
Probably about 60 KGs each,
I already weigh nearly 10 tons, 20 or so extra Kgs wont make a difference,
I am a cruiser, not a racer.
My rear anchor weighs that now, But is bloody useless.
The front one doesnt weigh much at all. The sand anchor. its too lite anyway,

I can set both new anchors and get a good nights sleep instead of sitting up all night waiting for crap anchors to start dragging,

High speed performance is not an issue, I have a very fast motorcycle for that. Hahahahahaha

Just saw this. gemini's if I'm not mistaken weigh less than 5 tons unloaded. You surely haven't doubled the weight with supplies?
In any case, as other have mentioned weight of anchor is not as important as matching design to bottom. The best holding anchors in mud or soft sand in one direction are fortress anchors, which are light and have huge fluke areas. In grass more piercing designs are needed, and in rocks, other anchors. Bottom line is the size and design of the anchor is more important than the weight, so it does you no good to build a twice as thick "rocna" duplicate if the size/area is not any bigger than a rocna half as heavy. I think the extra weight would be better put in more chain in your rode.....
Remember, it's a cat so every extra kg will weigh it down, making bridgedeck clearance lower (really critical in a Gemini) and it's not just about speed, but maneuverability, safety and stability in bad weather, etc.
I've never seen anyone in a boat even close in size to a Gemini with a hurricane anchor that large, let alone 2. 120kg of anchors is a lot....