Knot Funny

[JPK]

Newbie here - just finished my Basic Cruising course and about to do Bareboat Cruising. From the responses so far, it seems that there's a lot of love for the figure 8 as a stopper knot. The instructors in my classes, when teaching the figure 8, basically said "you need to know this knot because it's part of the curriculum, but it's actually not a great stopper knot." They taught us the double overhand stopper knot as the "real" stopper we should use after class. The reasons were that it's cleaning-looking and less likely to come apart on its own. Those that are using the figure 8, what do you like about it?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

1. Zeppelin Bend
2. Zeppelin Bend
3. Zeppelin Bend
4. Zeppelin Bend
5. Few other inconsequential knots

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ad-128727.html

The internet never forgets Have you demoted the others of your necessary knots in favor of the Zeppelin? (All in humor and jest, with a small amount of serious question - I do follow your knot adventures with rapt attention).

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Six knots for sailors that I think are vital (these we should be able to do without thinking and need lots of repetition to become engrained). This will cover you for 90% of knots you need to tie:
Loop: Bowline
Stopper: Figure 8
Hitches: Rolling, Cleat, 'Round turn & two half hitches'
Bend: Zeppelin plus variation for when lines are of different diameter

Nice next additions (take your pick):
Loops:
- Bowline on the bight (for when a midline loop is needed)
- Water bowline (very secure loop, better if line will be loaded and unloaded lightly or in water)
- Figure 8 (nice one for trucker's hitch)
Stopper:
- Double overhand (won't undo as easily as the figure 8 and just as quick)
Hitches:
- Clove (can either undo easily or jam, but useful for light temporary attachment; also the basis for lots of other knots)
- Cow (useful midline hitch, but can both slip and jam)
- Buntline (very secure but jams)
- Truckers (when the standing part needs to be tightened securely down)
- Constrictor (to hold lines from unravelling while whipping or splicing, or for garbage bags)
- Icicle or Klemheist (to attach your snubber more securely than a rolling hitch if you are not using a soft shackle)
- Tugboat (where a line under load needs to be kept around a winch, but you want to take the pressure off the paws)
Bends:
- Sheet bend (very quick, holds reasonably if lines same diameter, load needs to be put on near instantly though and not released as it can shake loose very easily). Edited to add: you may want to move the sheet bend up into the 'vital' section, there are good reasons to do so.
- Fisherman and Double Fisherman (double is super strong, but both versions will jam), used to make a strong loop = Prusik loop
Edited to add:
Shortening knot: Man-o'war sheepshank (don't use an ordinary sheepshank, as it is very unstable if not under the perfect amount of tension)

More for keen knot tyers:
Loops:
- Single handed Bowline (emergency)
- Bowline with a Yosemite finish (not quite as secure as the Water B, but much better than the standard version when the line is being loaded and unloaded before much load has been put on it and it is easier than the Water B).
- Alpine Butterfly (nice midline loop if the load is only being put on the standing ends and the loop is needed to attach something on). Edited to add:Excellent for isolating a damaged section of line
Stoppers:
- Ashley (bulkier than the above)
- Diamond (for soft shackles)
Hitches:
- Carrick (need to know it to learn the Diamond easily),

Note: Double sheet bend does not make an appearance at all. The version I had previously been using (#488) was not the one currently taught (#1434) and the Zeppelin replaces it hands down.

[thinwater]

OK wise guys. Skip the cleat hitch, and your boat will be gone when you return. Yeah, it's simple, but unarguably #1, up there with water tight integrity.


After that, in the order of actual use frequency:



2. Prusik. Holds better than rolling hitch and I can use Spectra slings. I use this to connect my bridle to a nylon rode. When I had all-chain, I used it to connect the secondary rode (a rolling hitch has been demonstrated to slip on chain below the WLL).



3. Round turn and two half hitches. For pilings. Yes, I could use a clove hitch, but it's often slower and harder to adjust. Half hitches are also used to finish lashings and, in my case, secure reef clew lashing.


4. Bowline. Could be number 2 on the list, depending on the day. Fast and easy to untie after loading.


5. Figure eight on a bight, scaffold knot, halyard bend, anchor hitch. Kinna depends on space, and what mood I'm in.
Hitches I don't often use.



A reef knot is the one I barely count, since I learned that before I learned to read. Mostly for bundling gear.


Not often used:

• Sheet bend and zeplin bend, because I don't often joint two ropes. If I do, I may not be sure the two lines will work together in a knot (they are probably very different and one is probably covered in seaweed), so a pair of bowlines interlocked is probably safer for temporary use.

I know many more knots, I just don't use them frequently. No need.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thinwater

OK wise guys. Skip the cleat hitch, and your boat will be gone when you return. Yeah, it's simple, but unarguably #1, up there with water tight integrity.

Agreed. And as a powerboater, I figure it's also the one where being able to do it quickly without thinking matters the most.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by JPK

Newbie here - just finished my Basic Cruising course and about to do Bareboat Cruising. From the responses so far, it seems that there's a lot of love for the figure 8 as a stopper knot. The instructors in my classes, when teaching the figure 8, basically said "you need to know this knot because it's part of the curriculum, but it's actually not a great stopper knot." They taught us the double overhand stopper knot as the "real" stopper we should use after class. The reasons were that it's cleaning-looking and less likely to come apart on its own. Those that are using the figure 8, what do you like about it?

Once the line is soaked with water, I suspect the figure 8 is much easier to untie than a double-overhand knot. I use a triple overhand knot when I don't ever want the stopper to come out. If I tie that, I am committing to cutting it off if needed.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Ded reckoner

We were in St Petersburg at a marina with fixed docks. A fresh east wind was blowing (which was a very rough condition) and the tide was almost at low tide. I checked my lines and then walked down the dock and saw a powerboat with all lines taut. The cleat hitches he had done were twisted on each end and he had done this multiple times. Because there was tension on every line, it was impossible to undo any cleat hitch. In that condition, he was performing deck cleat stress testing. I requested the dockmaster notify the owner.

Originally Posted by Shrew

That only occurs if tied incorrectly (backwards). If you run the bitter end around the cleat, it can't lock that way. What you describe can only occur if you cleat tie the working end of the line.

Having trouble interpreting what you mean here, Shrew...

I've not encountered that issue with our cleat hitches, but can't tell if the reason is because we automatically do what you're describing. Can you restate a bit?

-Chris

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The internet never forgets Have you demoted the others of your necessary knots in favor of the Zeppelin? (All in humor and jest, with a small amount of serious question - I do follow your knot adventures with rapt attention).

It has been seven years since I started the above thread on the Zeppelin bend and my love for the knot grows stronger every passing year .

Under item 5 in my latest list, I just have one addition to the list of knots I posted back in 2014 and that is the Brion Toss Button knot. I put this in the vital category, as we have dozens of soft shackles in use. There is more than one hitch on the list, as there is a wide variety of things that lines needs to be tied to. I think these 7 will cover you for 90% of knots you need to tie:

Loop: Bowline
Stopper: Figure 8
Hitches: Rolling, Cleat, 'Round turn & two half hitches'
Bend: Zeppelin plus variation for when lines are of different diameter
Soft shackle stopper: Brion Toss Button knot (use a Diamond knot if new to making these)


7 other knots that are currently tied reasonably often on board:
Constrictor knot (for garbage bags)
Double overhand stopper (neater, bulkier stopper if no need to untie often)
Clove hitch (for quick, temporary attachments)
Water bowline (vital if Bowline is used underwater with cyclical load)
Bowline on the bight (for when a midline loop is needed)
Alpine butterfly loop (to isolate a portion of damaged line)
Figure 8 loop (for Trucker’s hitch)

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

...
Soft shackle stopper: Brion Toss Button knot (use a Diamond knot if new to making these)...

I suppose we could just buy our soft shackles, but somehow I find that less satisfying. My everlasting gratitude for this thread on tying the button knot. In mid-process it can look like a frightful mess, but once completed and dressed it is a thing of beauty and well worthy of a place on the list of knots we ought to know - if just for the ways it could be adapted to make decorative rope work during those long watches in the Doldrums.

[StuM]

Essential knots :
1. Bowline
2. Zeppelin Bend!!!
3. Figure-8 Stopper knot? - Nope, Ashley's/Oysterman's is superior
4. Round Turn & 2 Half-Hitches
5. Cleat Hitch

Once those are ingrained:
Rolling Hitch
Alpine Butterfly or Figure 8 loop


Clove Hitch? - tends to slip with modern fibres - Round turn and 2 half-hitches is superior

Reef Knot? Should be used for reefing pennants AND NOWHERE ELSE on a boat!

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by JPK

...when teaching the Figure 8, [Instructor] basically said "you need to know this knot because it's part of the curriculum, but it's actually not a great stopper knot."

Here are the steps for a corkscrew stopper - simple, quick - and a damn sight better than a Figure 8!

[Emmalina]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't doubt a cleat hitch is important. And even though it is one of the easiest knots to tie, and is obvious when done wrong, it's still low on my priority list.

Firstly, because it is so damn easy. But also because I don't spend a lot of time tied to a dock.

Guess you don't use a snubber when at anchor then !

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by JPK

Newbie here - just finished my Basic Cruising course and about to do Bareboat Cruising. From the responses so far, it seems that there's a lot of love for the figure 8 as a stopper knot. The instructors in my classes, when teaching the figure 8, basically said "you need to know this knot because it's part of the curriculum, but it's actually not a great stopper knot." They taught us the double overhand stopper knot as the "real" stopper we should use after class. The reasons were that it's cleaning-looking and less likely to come apart on its own. Those that are using the figure 8, what do you like about it?

I have never had one come undone on its own. I am used to it. The corkscrew knot is fine and easy too, but I am a creature of habit until something really convinces me otherwise

[Ded reckoner]

Originally Posted by dannc

I would add Alpine Butterfly to the list.

Later,
Dan

The Alpine Butterfly is a great way to insert a bight into an existing line where both ends are already in use.

I would add a water knot to the list as a great means of tying two different lines together.

And, there's the improved clinch knot for fishing.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Here are the steps for a corkscrew stopper - simple, quick - and a damn sight better than a Figure 8!

Hi LittleWing

The corkscrew you illustrated is just an “undressed” double overhand stopper.
If you roll over one of the coils after tying your knot, it will miraculously transform.

SWL

[ahun]

+1 (very underrated, I use it often) constrictor knot
+2 (to attach to lines) fishermen's knot