Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

[smj]

Originally Posted by alansmith

It is an interesting question about 'fund me'. My understanding wasn't to buy the hem a new boat. But to assist them in getting home, clothing, food, and things for immediate living.

As I understood reading their blog... they didn't opt out of their insurance policy ... the insurance company cancelled their policy due to lack of experience in their part. So it is not like they did something so cavalier as that. Read their blog. They are good people who made some mistakes. I don't believe for a second they are asking for close to a million dollars all in.

Their insurance dropped them but they decided to continue on knowing they were taking a risk. I'm guessing if they can afford to own a debt free 600-700k catamaran and sail across the Pacific they probably have the $'s to return home. Is it easier to receive funds through "fund me" in the SP than it would be for a relative to wire the necessary funds? I'm all for helping someone if they truly need it, and I'm sure the fellow cruisers are feeding and clothing them, but is the fund me fund necessary?

[NoahTreat]

Originally Posted by smj

Their insurance dropped them but they decided to continue on knowing they were taking a risk. I'm guessing if they can afford to own a debt free 600-700k catamaran and sail across the Pacific they probably have the $'s to return home. Is it easier to receive funds through "fund me" in the SP than it would be for a relative to wire the necessary funds? I'm all for helping someone if they truly need it, and I'm sure the fellow cruisers are feeding and clothing them, but is the fund me fund necessary?

Most of those questions were answered in their blog. Maybe, at the very least, read it before you start criticizing someone else's situation. The OP posted links.

[smj]

Originally Posted by NoahTreat

Most of those questions were answered in their blog. Maybe, at the very least, read it before you start criticizing someone else's situation. The OP posted links.

Can't say that I criticized anyone and scanned through their blog but don't have the time to read the whole thing at this point. Instead of being surly why don't you educate me and answer my questions?

[NoahTreat]

Originally Posted by smj

Can't say that I criticized anyone and scanned through their blog but don't have the time to read the whole thing at this point. Instead of being surly why don't you educate me and answer my questions?

If you don't have time to read their blog, I don't have time to educate you.

[smj]

Originally Posted by NoahTreat

If you don't have time to read their blog, I don't have time to educate you.

Thanks!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I am looking hard at that chart, can't see any uncharted reefs between Moorea and Huahine.

b.

I REALLY hope you're joking....

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I REALLY hope you're joking....

If so, it's a good one

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by NoahTreat

If you don't have time to read their blog, I don't have time to educate you.

Well Noah, I have the time but am on a rather limited data budget. So, if you are really interested in helping them get funding, why don't you summarize their position for us?

Until convinced otherwise, it's hard to understand why folks here on CF, many of whom are saving every dollar trying to be able to afford a boat <1/10th the cost of theirs should delay their dream to help these sailors who took risks and lost due to their own errors. If they really are stuck with no way to return home, well sure, I'd pony up a contribution...

Jim

[matt w]

I do feel empathy for this family and especially the kids. Accidents happen and everyone makes mistakes. The most important thing is they are all safe and uninjured. Some wonderful things can happen from the most tragic events such as this, and it seems like they are strong people and an even stronger family. So I have little doubt they will get through it all and come out better for it in the long run. The husband is a commercial pilot so is highly employable with a fairly high earnings potential so I don't think they will be living in a slum somewhere even if it does take a little while to get back on their feet financially.

I have read their blog and stuff they posted on facebook. They couldn't get the insurance due to lack of experienced crew for the passage from the Galapagos to FrP. The insurance wanted a third person with sailing experience/qualifications for the 3000+ nm passage in unfamiliar waters. They felt with 12000 nm sailing experience they were fully qualified and capable. They were supposed to get it once they arrived but cited bad wifi availability for not getting it set back up. I guess I am super conservative with my investments because no matter what, I would make sure I was insured. Even if I had to pay to use a satellite phone or anchor the boat in a harbor and drive somewhere. Especially if I had sold everything to buy this boat and my family were relying on it as their home. And they were in Tahiti prior to wrecking which has excellent wifi...

Their experience has reinforced my conviction about being extra cautious, prepared and safe: in protecting my investments with insurance (including myself with life insurance since I am the main earner in the family); in planning passages and allowing for uncooperative weather and seas no matter what forecasts predict since they are educated guesses; in navigation and relying on any one chart or tech gadget; in thinking too highly of myself and experience/letting myself get overconfident and perhaps a little cavalier attitude; in giving a very wide berth around islands with known fringing reefs; and most importantly, being patient and not pushing the envelope when it becomes apparent the plans need to change. You're living the dream, and in paradise, so what's the rush?

The local police said at least 5 boats a year end up wrecking in 2 spots on the reefs, one is where they hit, due to using Navionics. I wasn't on the boat, I don't know what really happened and all of the specific details. So it is easy to jump to conclusions and second guess. It is a humbling lesson and one that I am thankful I can learn from. I think it will take them a while to get over the shock, enormous stress and grief to be able to examine it a little more dispassionately and be able to admit to themselves that they very likely made a number of preventable mistakes and accept that they are probably the only ones to blame for the outcome. The poor guy must feel absolutely gutted that he killed their boat and dreams, I know I would.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If so, it's a good one

Only the truth. I've never seen any uncharted reefs (or uncharted anything) on my charts either.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Only the truth. I've never seen any uncharted reefs (or uncharted anything) on my charts either.

Now I get it. Doh!

But makes you think - you don't know what you don't know. So, extra caution needed if anything signals that there may be something unknown lurking. Like, the near presence of a reef-fringed island.

[44'cruisingcat]

There used to be an island on the charts that wasn't there in real life. Sandy island, was shown to lie pretty much on the rhumb line between Huon and Chesterfield reefs.

It was a pretty big island too, especially given that it never existed!

What was really weird was that it showed up on Google Earth, until you zoomed in, when it suddenly looked like it had been crossed out with a texta!

But what do you do, when your course is going to take you straight into it, and at night to boot?

Well, we sailed well to the south of it, even though I was pretty confident it really wasn't there.

Later, an Australian geographic expedition went out to see whether it really did or did not exist. It doesn't.

[double u]

apparently the thing to do today is to cut any reefs very close to windward (how much is the chart claimed to be "out"? 1/2 mile? if so they obviously intended to pass the southern edge of the barrierreef, where the surf is strongest, with a clearance of just a little bit more...) & in case of crash cry for financial help.
(without wanting to tempt fate for future voyages or sound conceited: how did we manage 3 rtws, 2 of which were without gps, just sextant-navigation, erach time spending extra time in the s-pacific (like 7 months in the solomon- & bismarck-sea on the first trip, & not lose the boat???)
as a friend just said of me (different context): I lack compassion!

[Paul L]

Picked this up on the Yahoo Cruisers Network email list. Great response from Navionics:

. Navionics response

Dear Deb Doyle,

Thank you for contacting Navionics.
We were very sorry to learn of this unfortunate incident. The Navionics chart of Huahine, is derived from official French Hydrographic Office Charts as well as satellite imagery.

Despite our accuracy, charts have errors whether it is a result of survey errors or source errors. This applies to ALL charts, whether government or private, official or otherwise. The International Hydrographic Organization stated that less than 10% of the seas are charted as well as the Moon, and even that 10% contains errors. This is why the common rules of navigation require that skippers, in addition to official charts, use multiple sources of information, including sailing directions, cruising guides, radar, sonar, local diligence and good eyesight. With the best chart in the world, one should never get close to coral reefs at full speed and at night, but rather when the sun is highest, at very slow speed, and with a person on watch on the bow. This is the only way to ensure that breaking waves be spotted from a distance, and that possible uncharted coral heads be avoided.

The warnings that go with all charts are not there to protect the chart makers, but rather to protect the chart users from making mistakes in over-reliance on any one tool of navigation. A review of this topic can be found here https://www.navionics.com/fra/blog/p...tronic-charts/

Best regards,

Mary-Ellen Smith
Navionics Global Customer Service Manager

[Jim Cate]

. Navionics response

Dear Deb Doyle,

Thank you for contacting Navionics.
We were very sorry to learn of this unfortunate incident. The Navionics chart of Huahine, is derived from official French Hydrographic Office Charts as well as satellite imagery.

Despite our accuracy, charts have errors whether it is a result of survey errors or source errors. This applies to ALL charts, whether government or private, official or otherwise. The International Hydrographic Organization stated that less than 10% of the seas are charted as well as the Moon, and even that 10% contains errors. This is why the common rules of navigation require that skippers, in addition to official charts, use multiple sources of information, including sailing directions, cruising guides, radar, sonar, local diligence and good eyesight. With the best chart in the world, one should never get close to coral reefs at full speed and at night, but rather when the sun is highest, at very slow speed, and with a person on watch on the bow. This is the only way to ensure that breaking waves be spotted from a distance, and that possible uncharted coral heads be avoided.

The warnings that go with all charts are not there to protect the chart makers, but rather to protect the chart users from making mistakes in over-reliance on any one tool of navigation. A review of this topic can be found here https://www.navionics.com/fra/blog/p...tronic-charts/

Best regards,

Mary-Ellen Smith
Navionics Global Customer Service Manager

Gee, that sounds a lot like what some of us mere sailors have been saying. A surprising response, one that raises Navianic's status in my jaded eyes!

Jim