light wind setup....

[lateral]

If you think this is better sourced elsewhere don't reply but I'm curious how ppl set up for these conditions in a light seaway.

A coupla questions: For a mast head sloop 34', to < 10knts.
At say (145°) awa, how far should the boom be out?
Should it always be slightly >90° leech to luff to wind dirrection as an objective? At closer to ddw it can't be, main is on the lowers/spreaders? Who stops short then adds twist to get better angle?
Whats your main setup procedure for best speed?

At what max awa will you pole out the genny opposite (gull)?

[JPA Cate]

We pole out the genny from 145 deg. apparent, can carry a little higher, but not much, and all the way down to very slightly by the lee with the main all the way out. If it has been below 10 knots long enough for the ocean to flatten, man, it's spinnaker time. Build a sock for it if you don't have one. Makes life easier when you're shorthanded.

Ann

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

We pole out the genny from 145 deg. apparent, can carry a little higher, but not much, and all the way down to very slightly by the lee with the main all the way out. If it has been below 10 knots long enough for the ocean to flatten, man, it's spinnaker time. Build a sock for it if you don't have one. Makes life easier when you're shorthanded.

Ann

Thanks Anne. Sorry, but do not understand in blue.
Yep hear you on the spinnaker. Working with the basics at this point.

[Jim Cate]

Buttng in here!

We actually will carry the poled out genoa up to 100 deg apparent at times, trimming the main as requird. This especially when in flukey conditions with big wind shifts. To keep decent sail shape with the pole well forward, we'll take a couple of rolls in the genoa... all very easy. I'm not sure at which angle it becomes faster to strike the pole and gybe the sail, but obviously it must happen somewhere. The labour saving ofleaving the pole up is the trade for minor speed losses... depends upon the situation as to what we will do.

And what Ann meant about carrying the pole as the wind goes further aft to the point where we are slightly by hte lee... well, that's what happens sometimes. Gybing the pole is a lot of work, so if the conditions are flukey again, or it appears that there will soon be a course change to bring the wind forward again, we'll just ride with it. Not the best practice by many standards, but when short handed cruising, one often makes decisions based on fatigue management rather that optimizing speed... much as I hate to admit it.

And BTW, our boat has swept back spreaders, and this limits how far we can ease the main before the sail starts serious chafing.

Oh... in lighter airs, if the wind is in the 145-125 deg AWA we will pole out the genoa to windward and use the Solent jib to leeward. This adds around 250 sq ft of area and some extra speed. With the wind further aft it does not work.

Jim

[lateral]

Good stuff Jim, I should not pole out until I've got established wind.

Got caught with the non-sailing family members recently with the pole out/ major wind shift and a halyard wrapped furler. Bit busy for a moment. I thought I did well.
My other half wasn't impressed.

Would the top wind speed for a poled out genny be similar to a spinnaker?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by lateral

Good stuff Jim, I should not pole out until I've got established wind.

Got caught with the non-sailing family members recently with the pole out/ major wind shift and a halyard wrapped furler. Bit busy for a moment. I thought I did well.
My other half wasn't impressed.

Would the top wind speed for a poled out genny be similar to a spinnaker?

We will at times carry at least part of the genny poled out up to 25+ apparent , and that is lots more wind than we will carry the kite. It's still pretty easy to roll up 80% of the sail, drop the pole and then roll up the rest of the sail, or whatever evolution is required. In such wind strengths we would have at least one reef in the main and possibly two. This balances well with say 70% of the genoa poled. Those numbers are for deep angles, say > 145 deg apparent. Boat speed will be at hull speed, with surfing to considerably higher numbers now and then. Our record is ~15.5 knots, but we often will see 13+... fun and you get where you are going sooner!

Different boats behave in different fashions under such conditions. I'd suggest approaching it a step up in wind strength at a time. Helps to avoid situations such as you describe above!

Jim

[UNCIVILIZED]

A big part of how you use the pole, when, in what wind speeds, etc. is a function of how it's setup. Since the more stable it is, & the more you can control the pole independently of the sail, the more useful it'll be. As if you can fix the pole's end using several different lines independent of the sheet, then it'll be a lot more stable. Which will keep more wind in the sail when it's light, & or rolly. And you can use it a lot more to control exactly where the clew of the jib is.

One big part of this is the setup of your topping lift(s) & foreguy. Since a pole that has both of these connected to it's outboard end is going to be a lot easier to control, as well as more stable, than will a pole connected to an upper & lower bridle, like you commonly see on a J24. And generally, it's easier to gybe the pole with such a setup as well. Though it pays to roll up the jib before gybing, & unroll it after.

[JPA Cate]

Uncivilized,

And generally, it's easier to gybe the pole with such a setup as well. Though it pays to roll up the jib before gybing, & unroll it after.

Boy, you got that right!

Ann

[Stumble]

The big picture answer here is it just depends. Every boat is a little different, and sail arrangement makes a massive difference in how to trim the sails.

On a MH rig with a big headsail (>155) getting the headsail pulling it critically important. And by pulling I do not mean just pole it out as a wind block, you want to see the telltales streaming, breaking evenly up and down the sail... you really want it to be acting as an airfoil not just a drag device.

The smaller the headsail, and the larger the main the less important it is, it's still nice, but not as critical.

Getting the main to pull is really difficult at deeper angles, the mast simply acts too much like a wind block. So ignore the entire front third, and the top twenty percent. They are too stalled out by the mast to trim anyway, and just focus on the leech. Getting that area pulling well is where the pay off is.

As for the main trim you mention, if the lower spreader is being hit first it likely means you need a lot more vang on. Another rule of thumb is that if the vang is right the sail will hit the top and bottom spreader at roughly the same time. If anything the top should hit first due to the top twisting off a bit relative to the bottom, not the other way around.

As mentioned, in light air a spinnaker is just a whole different world. It makes everything work better. In less than 10kn downwind sailing with just white sails is just painful.