Lines in lieu of drogues?

[paul.devalier]

I've started reading Peter Bruce's "Heavy Weather Sailing" and I am trying to understand this account by Christopher Price in a 1968 storm :

After a broach "we then put two warps about 20 fathoms each, tied at the ends so as to form a bight, and made off at first the primary and then the secondary winches."

Am I understanding correctly that they created a loop of line about 120 feet secured port and starboard on the winches to create drag and be a sort of poor man's emergency drogue?

Does this actually work in a pinch to keep stability and alignment with the waves?

[Dockhead]

Yes, and yes.


It's a very old, tried and true method -- called "trailing warps".

[hpeer]

I believe it works up to a point. It all depends upon how much you need to slow down.

Warps - slow a little
Drouge - quite a bit more
Jordan Series Drogue - damn near stopped
Parachute - deploy off bow because you are stopped dead

[Kettlewell]

I believe it works up to a point. It all depends upon how much you need to slow down.

And if the storm keeps building along with the waves there comes a point at which suddenly there is not enough drag and you are surfing down the faces of big waves with the possibility of pitchpoling or broaching and getting rolled. An option that some have tried is to drag an anchor on the end or other gear to act as a crude drogue.

[Foswick]

Yeah, there's nothing special about a drogue - just something you toe behind you that creates some drag.

[Kettlewell]

Yeah, there's nothing special about a drogue - just something you toe behind you that creates some drag.

Well, the Jordan series drogue is quite a bit different with small cones spaced out over a long length of rode so that there never comes a point where you can just pull the drogue out of the face of a wave, which has happened with some. I used a small parachute as a drogue and eventually deployed 400 feet of line to avoid this problem--putting the drogue on the opposite side of the wavetrain from our boat. A lot of people consider Jordan drogues to be the state of the art. More info. here: https://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_12.htm

[Iron E]

As Dockhead says, a very old and trusted method. As a matter of fact, Warps were all Kirsten, the 2022 GGR winner, relied on for her journey.

As mentioned above, keeping your line in the water is crucial, as is the size and length of your warp line... and though I've never done it, I've heard of chain being added.

[SV_FlyingTigress]

ABBOTT DROGUE

Tunable warp based drogue for cats or any boat with dual stern wenches.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I believe it works up to a point. It all depends upon how much you need to slow down.

Warps - slow a little
Drouge - quite a bit more
Jordan Series Drogue - damn near stopped
Parachute - deploy off bow because you are stopped dead

Up to a point which is greatly further than running off with no drag device.


I think will cover 90% of all realistic heavy weather cases. Only the last 10% will need an actual drogue.


That being said, I do carry a Jordan Series Drogue, myself.

[Franziska]

Here you can see a good example of someone actually trailing warps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pvqrIK1LOI

[hpeer]

Dockhead,

Thus is an old discussion run about a few times before. In the end it is oersonal situation and preference that rules.

I met a guy who lost a nice boat. Long story short he believed he had deployed his drogue too soon and that encouraged a pooping, which killed his engine, and things deteriorated from there. The Jordan drogue have many advantages but they tend to slow the boat more than a normal drogue.

But a friend lost a boat because the warps, and they had everything available out, would not slow the boat sufficiently.

So, I don’t know, the answer lays in the specifics of the situation. I have enough rode to do run multiple drogues - if needed.

Thankfully remains untested.

[Fore and Aft]

Who can remember Peter Blake and crew crossing the finish line in Enza towing warps in a Force 10 gale. Must have been one hell of a ride.
Cheers

[Nicholson58]

Get this book. Larry Pardey. Storm Tactics. The best short form reference of how to survive.

https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Tactics.../dp/1929214472

Our boat is too big for trailing anything. I met and discussed with Mr Pardey at the Chicago Sail show. I had the good fortune to sit through his presentation. There are many situations discussed in the book. Many are dependent on the vessel.

We encountered +48 knots on our recent return from the eastern Caribbean to the Chesapeake. Our bullet proof cutter staysail worked perfectly fore reaching.

BTW, ROXY is for sale. Ref posts on this site.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3905524

[Fi2010]

The trick in making any drag device perform well is to maintain Constant Rode Tension in the system. You can do this with weight placement, speeding or slowing the boat, use rode with less stretch and/or bridle setups.

Yes, trailing warps can work, but weight placement, as mentioned, is important. You would also have to add some floatation as well. All at the end of the warp(s).

Boat design makes a difference. Heavy keeled boats tend to track straight and require less drag with their drogue. Lightweight, fin keeled or fast moving multihulls require more drag.

Para-anchors, speed-limiting and stopping drogues all perform well if they’re rigged properly. Claiming one device is better over the other is inaccurate. USCG, US Navy, and NASA testing prove no one device is better than any other…they agree with our company…it’s personal preference and we believe intended use is a big factor.

The Drag Device Data Base, Storm Tactics, and Surviving the Storm are a few good books to check out. YouTube also has several new para-anchor and storm drogue videos published in the past month. Bridles, trip lines, Rode Tension are covered in the various videos.

[Rainbow48]

The off shore, heavy weather routine for both my previous boat (“Argo”, 46 ft, 41,000 lbs, traditional wood) and my current boat ( “Rainbow”, 63 ft, 81,000 lbs, traditional wood), has always been reducing sail, as conditions deteriorate, down the bare poles. I want to keep way on the ship, perhaps a knot or two, just enough for steerage way. As conditions deteriorate further, and we start getting up too much speed, it’s time to set up the warps off the stern. These are always deployed in a large bight secured on each side of the stern and secured to the quarter bits. I use my longest anchor rode - the longer the bight, the better. If I find the warps to provide insufficient drag, I thread on 2 or 3 automobile tires which I stow in the fore peak for this purpose. When in heavy weather, you do NOT want to stop dead in the water, which will require the ship to absorb the force of the seas by brute strength. Running under bare poles is good up to a point, until conditions start to favor a broach. Warps, with some added resistance, keep the ship slowed down so as to minimize danger of a broach, but still give us enough steerageway to maintain control.