Looking for advice when leaving the dock

[Tanzersailing]

Good morning everyone, I own a Tanzer 8.5(28'), monohull with a fin keel and 13 hp Yanmar. I'm still fairly new to boating and sailing. Sailing isn't a problem, once I'm on the lake(lake Erie) I'm good.

I have been having trouble getting off our dock. Our boat is tied bow up to a finger dock on our starboard with another boat to our port with about 1' of space between. Ive attached a diagram of our dock setup for reference here.

When backing off the dock I usually have my wife with me, we untie the lines and she holds the bow line. I reverse very slowly with the rudder pointed straight at first. Once about half the boat is past the dock I start turning the rudder to port which i think should pull the stern to port and bow to starboard, away from our neighbors boat and towards the dock.

In practice this doesn't always work, today i had the rudder hard to port but the boat bow kept turning towards port heading us upwind and up the channel. Not the direction i wanted to go. We managed to shift into forward and do a 180 turn in the channel to get heading in the right direction but it was very close.

Wind was blowing from the south up the channel about 8-10 knots.

If anyone can give me some advice for getting off the dock and headed in the right direction it'd greatly appreciate it. I thought getting on the dock would be the hard part but thats been pretty easy so far.

[Jammer]

Two choices:


1) If the wind is blowing straight up the fairway, you may be better off backing into the wind all the way up the fairway until you are ready to make whatever turn you make at the end.


2) If you have room to do it safely, use more power. The wind will try to blow the bow around, careful use of power can overcome that up to a point. Port rudder plus a good amount of reverse power should be able to overcome a 10 knot end and let you get lined up. You want to point the bow straight into the wind where it won't blow to one side or the other, for your shift from reverse to forward. After you shift you will want a good deal of power so that you can get the boat moving fast enough to get good rudder control.


One foot between boats isn't much to work with, consider asking for a more suitable slip.


With more room you could have your wife start aboard and control the bow with forward power while tied to a stern cleat, rather than having her hold the bow painter. That may still be possible, if there are fenders between the two boats to prevent a mishap. If she is already aboard you would be able to apply judicious reverse right away (releasing the stern line at the same time) which would give you better control.

[Cheechako]

-Start out as you mention; rudder straight, very slowly.
-When nearly out, turn rudder to port and give it a quick gun in reverse. This will turn the stern to port and the bow to starboard fast.
-Then turn rudder to starboard and gun it again in forward, just a quick surge, this will turn the the bow quickly to starboard. Watch your stern as it will turn a bit to port.
-Carry on forward.

The key is really just use short hard bursts to turn how you want, dont slow roll it. Wind direction will modify how much of each step you need though.

[JPA Cate]

Places I've been, no one objects to you carefully using the boathook to push the bow off, if it would otherwise contact the other boat. I have also walked forward with a big round fender, to do the same thing. Maybe ask your wife how she would approach it.

I think Jammer's suggestion of doing the whole long run in reverse makes a whole lot of sense, if it sets you up to be able to leave the marina eventually. Rudders don't do much in the way of steering until you have some way on, and you can use the engine to good advantage building up a few knots to gain and retain control. When I was leaving a dock, and lacking confidence, it worked for me. [Have to confess, I've not very much confidence relative to docking.]

Ann

[NorthCoastJoe]

Back out all the way in reverse is what we do when the wind is strong. Work with the wind not against it. Once you start getting blown sideways it is hard to overcome the momentum.

Class 5 whitewater rafting taught me to go with the momentum a long time ago.

[Bullshooter]

Tanzer,

Not trying to be critical but something is confusing here:

"today i had the rudder hard to port but the boat bow kept turning towards port heading us upwind and up the channel. "

and then

"Wind was blowing from the south up the channel."

From your diagram, it seems if your bow swung to port, you would be heading down wind.

Or I am misreading your diagram.

"

[leecea]

I agree with the suggestions to reverse the boat out. We are in a similar situation except we're stern in. If we have 10 knots blowing the bow the wrong way we just let it go and reverse out.

When backing off the dock I usually have my wife with me, we untie the lines and she holds the bow line. I reverse very slowly with the rudder pointed straight at first. Once about half the boat is past the dock I start turning the rudder to port which i think should pull the stern to port and bow to starboard, away from our neighbors boat and towards the dock.

With only 1' between boats it will be a bit challenging to keep the bow off the other boat so what you describe above might have helped stop the bow being blown down too much. Maybe just do that again but then just back out instead of doing a U-turn.

[Beppe123]

A 28' boat may be relatively easy to walk it out of the slip, using the dock lines, without even using the engine until when you are out of the dock. You can push the bow the direction you want using a boat hook or pushing on pilings if you have those. Another thing to consider is to have the boat docked stern to. That way, exiting the dock with be much easier. Of course that would however make your docking somewhat more challenging.

[psk125]

Agree with Bullshooter that the written description is problematic.
Jammer and Cheechako have some good advice about getting water flowing over the rudder. Moving slowly means little flow and therefore little effect from the rudder. Bursts of power from the prop will help the rudder work better while not making the boat move too fast. Moving slowly also means prop walk may enter into the equation, negating the rudder's effect. You might also find that if your wife holds the breast line and walks it forward as you back out, instead of holding the bow line and easing it out, it will help turn the boat towards the exit.

[barnab]

Keep in mind when using bursts that you need to give the prop time to slow down/stop, so go from burst to idle/in gear, to neutral, idle/engaged the other direction, then burst. Otherwise you will be replacing your damper place soon.


To get out I would go with the burst described above, so idle reverse, undo stern line, and while you rev up have your wife drop the bow line. She can then grab a fender or boathook just in case...I would then let the wind blow the bow off and reverse either out of the marina or to a place where you can turn easily. There is no shame in reversing.


The other option, if you want to go slow, would be a spring from bow to the middle of the finger. While you back out have your wife keep some tension on that line to prevent the wind from blowing the bow off. I would make sure she has a sharp knife in her pocket just in case the line gets stuck. This (the spring line, not the knife) could also help you turn your stern to north if you want to leave your fairway forward.

[meirriba]

In the discussion I haven't seen any info about the propwalk.
In my opinion, if the stern tries to go to starboard (upwind in the diagram), the easiest way out will be backwards.

[cat34shamrock]

Learn to anticipate and use the prop walk. I've found that a burst of power in reverse then neutral is the best way to control the prop walk. ie it only happens when the prop is turning. I single hand mostly and often hand line the boat out of the slip, I'm on the boat, rudder turned slightly away from dock, line on end of dock, looped if need to retrieve, move and pull forward to bring bow in, when the boat is moving and somewhat clear of the dock/neighbor boat I then get behind the wheel and finish driving the boat out.
That's what works for me and my 34 foot sail boat.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Be aware that when motoring astern at any kind of speed that the rudder may suddenly snatch to one side if not held very firmly. If you have a tiller keep it between your legs.If you have a wheel be sure not to have your hands where they could be struck by the spokes, should the wheel suddenly spin.
On the substantive matter I would concur with the advice to reverse all the way down the channel if the wind is from the south.The wind will always try to "weathercock" the bow downwind. The easiest course of action is to use this to your advantage.

[parkstone bay]

With pretty well all boats the bow will blow off downwind. When preparing, check the wind and current directions, and tell your crew what Plan A is, and what plan B is as well. Make sure you tell them what are in fact doing, especially if you do change your method halfway through. It's called Communication.
We are in a similar location in the UK, and often have to back out if the breeze is in the wrong direction.
Remember that propwalk is usually more noticeable in astern.
Though you haven't mentioned it, if you're going into what is a tight berth, use a spring from your midships cleat to the end of the finger when going in. We always do.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

-Start out as you mention; rudder straight, very slowly.
-When nearly out, turn rudder to port and give it a quick gun in reverse. This will turn the stern to port and the bow to starboard fast.
-Then turn rudder to starboard and gun it again in forward, just a quick surge, this will turn the the bow quickly to starboard. Watch your stern as it will turn a bit to port.
-Carry on forward.

The key is really just use short hard bursts to turn how you want, dont slow roll it. Wind direction will modify how much of each step you need though.

Left-hand or right-hand prop?
Makes a big difference on my boat.

Al, S/V Finlandia