Man-overboard drill in 25 knots?

[Cheechako]

I've done the drill twice in winter in Seattle. It can be fun but dicey too. Neither was 25 knots though... but good strong wind.
Some of the clubs local to you may do it, inquire...?

[Moontide]

Probably the best conditions to practice it in. Light air is easy.



I differ a bit on my approach to MOB's.

My instructions to others on board (when in open water) is to immediately stop the boat, usually by turning head to wind or even past that (in all but the most severe conditions). Its on a cat so backwinding sails will not create heeling issues. In fact if you turn quick enough and backwind the sails there is a good chance the boat will drift back towards the person in the water. This also reduces the chances of losing track of the person in the water which is major issue in all but benign conditions.



Doesn't matter what sails are up. If you can stop within a boat length or two I feel you have a much better chance of retrieving someone (assumes they are not injured). I don't care if a chute is up or not. I'd much rather have to buy a new sail than explain to a family member why someone didn't make it back to shore.



Maybe not the orthodox method, but has worked well when we've practiced it.


Edit: I also say throw anything that floats overboard both to mark the spot and give floatation to the MOB. i have a horseshoe ring and an old school MOB pole.

[Cheechako]

The FIRST thing to do is to designate one person responsible to keep track of the person in the water.

[psk125]

We did drills on our J/36 in 20 knots of wind. Our first was with the spinnaker up. I threw over a cushion and called "Man Overboard". We had all spent the morning at a Storm Trysail Club Safety at Sea session, learning about the "Quick Stop" method. The helmsman tacked the boat immediately. With the spinnaker up. It draped all over the rigging, and the boat stopped. Crew got the chute down and we were back at the cushion in less than 45 seconds. Stopping the boat to retrieve the victim is another thing. Our helmsman, used to dinghies and unfamiliar with the momentum of keelboats, cruised by it the first time at about eight knots. Snagging a victim at that speed could break bones, so we practiced a few more times, working at getting the boat to stop with the cushion to leeward. Afterwards, as head of the Race Committee at our club, I gave each boat racing a watermelon. They had to throw it overboard at a signal from the RC boat and then retrieve it before continuing the race. Watermelons are better for MOB practice than cushions because they are about the size of a person's head and float about as far out of the water. They don't blow away easily. They're also difficult to hold onto and require really stopping the boat to grab them -- just like a tired victim. Give it a try

[requiem]

Yang, what specific MOB technique were you taught and how much sail did you have up?

Gybing is something that I think people often get nervous about, and then don't practice enough, which in turn leads to less-smooth gybes when needed. I was also out in those winds last Sunday and an MOB recovery should certainly have been manageable.

[Yangyangyyy]

I was taught the standard figure-8 technique ( and I believe it was a mandatory skill to pass 104)

Yeah jibing in the slot makes you uneasy. We practiced a lot right north of bay bridge , just brushing on the slot. That worked perfectly. But once in the slot in the afternoon, it was quite a different situation

[gamayun]

How did you jibe while in the slot? Were you able to center the main and ease it quickly? It also requires someone with strong control of the helm to steer into the jibe slowly and then not overcorrect when the main comes over - especially hard to do when the swell is running big. I've never had an issue doing a chicken jibe in the bay so you could try that too. A friend told me he was taught by ASA to jibe by watching the "wink" in the sail. Are you doing this? I have no idea what it means. I've always jibed when the wind went too far in the lee or I was ready to go the other way.

Good suggestions about always treating hats as MOBs. You can also throw a fender over when no one is ready and see how everyone reacts. Best to warn them at the dock that you'll be doing a drill today and go over the basics to give them a fighting chance.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

The good thing about the figure eight is no jibing required; the bad thing is it takes you away from the MOB, (4 OR 5 boat lengths recommended) and the further you go the less chance of finding and recovering the MOB. My preference is to stop the boat immediately by heading into the wind, throw some cushions if they are handy, and then backwind the jib like you are trying to heave to and slowly make a circle around the MOB. You will jibe but you will have time to set up for it. When you are on a close reach, go for the pickup. This is especially useful in the ocean where the swells will quickly obscure the MOB.

Yes.

I think practicing in 25 knots, in the open ocean, is excellent because you'll see how easy it is to lose sight of an MOB and how hard it is for any boat, but especially a small boat, to tack back up to the MOB (if it can,) if running, and keep them in sight, (if you are practicing engineless.) The main thing I learn every time I try recovering a hat or cushion is how important a harness is!

[Allied39]

Originally Posted by Yangyangyyy

Last week 2pm in San Francisco bay, in the regular 25knots wind, we were doing a jibe, and unfortunately were rounded back into the wind 180 degrees. At worst point the boat was knocked down to about 20 degrees above waterline.

I was thinking what if someone fell overboard. then I'll need to use the man overboard drill that I learnt in ASA courses. But back then we did it in 10knots maybe at most 12knots wind.

Is it ever possible to do the drill in 25 knots wind?

I dont know the exact windspeed , I dont do the whole "numbers" thing, but i lost a shower bag over the side running down the north side of Cuba.

It must have been between 20 and 25, good stiff breeze. Wifey tried to keep the position and I brought the boat around. No issue, even with a shower bag barely visible and barely floating.
So, yeah, most definately can be done. That however was with a vessel that I can handle that is swift and responsive. Cant speak for other people on other boats.
Anyone who ventures offshore most definately SHOULD be able to perform such maneuvers.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by gamayun

A friend told me he was taught by ASA to jibe by watching the "wink" in the sail. Are you doing this? I have no idea what it means. I've always jibed when the wind went too far in the lee or I was ready to go the other way.

When I was starting out I was very concerned about an accidental gybe and a bit too focused on the windicator atop the mast, and thus not always sailing as deep as I could.

Winking is simply when the jib starts to collapse. A doc on the usna.edu site describes it as when the "jib clew drops 6 inches and/or just starts to move toward centerline", but in light airs that might be a bit too subtle.

[requiem]

One other thing to mention, on the open ocean you won't often have clear horizon references as to which way you're pointed. Inside the bay it's much easier for your brain to orient itself.

Here's a video on avoiding a broach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkouAjobzac

(kicker == vang)

And to follow-up, an article talking a bit more about using the vang: https://afloat.ie/resources/marine-i...nsail-the-vang

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by requiem

When I was starting out I was very concerned about an accidental gybe and a bit too focused on the windicator atop the mast, and thus not always sailing as deep as I could.



Winking is simply when the jib starts to collapse. A doc on the usna.edu site describes it as when the "jib clew drops 6 inches and/or just starts to move toward centerline", but in light airs that might be a bit too subtle.

Thanks, that helps. A flopped over jib is the clue I use. The wink seems way too subtle for me. We often sail wing-on-wing and try to get the main out as far as possible to help the angles. The wink won't work at all in that sail configuration.

[Nauticus]

Originally Posted by BillKny

The ASA teaches that method because it is easy to learn, and having students struggle is bad for business. In multiple evaluations it has never been found to be a relable mob recovery method.



Try this method, (the figure-8) works no matter the wind strength because no jibe is needed!

The fig8 is how I was taught it in Basic keelboat in Canada.

[Yangyangyyy]

yeah the issue with that incident was that the main sheet was stuck and couldn't get released soon. the crew pulled in the main sheet not fast enough, so the boat slowed down, leading to stronger apparent wind. to pull the main sheet faster, we'd have to do the slam jibe (grab in the main sheet bundle by hand and swing it to the windward side, at least for the last 20 degrees), but that is a bit scary too.

yesterday we went out to just above the bay bridge, but below the slot, where there was about 15knots wind in the morning (10-12). there was not yet too much traffic. we practiced MOB with 2 bumpers tied up together, it was fun, but the bumpers went under the boat (boat straddling the bumpers on the ropes connecting them), that gave me a scare as I feared it might get tangled up on the propellers. fortunately we got it out by running and turning. then we practiced with a life vest, yes it was quite easy to lose sight of the vest.

Originally Posted by gamayun

How did you jibe while in the slot? Were you able to center the main and ease it quickly? It also requires someone with strong control of the helm to steer into the jibe slowly and then not overcorrect when the main comes over - especially hard to do when the swell is running big. I've never had an issue doing a chicken jibe in the bay so you could try that too. A friend told me he was taught by ASA to jibe by watching the "wink" in the sail. Are you doing this? I have no idea what it means. I've always jibed when the wind went too far in the lee or I was ready to go the other way.

Good suggestions about always treating hats as MOBs. You can also throw a fender over when no one is ready and see how everyone reacts. Best to warn them at the dock that you'll be doing a drill today and go over the basics to give them a fighting chance.

[EngineerRetired]

I've read (and watched on YouTube) extensively and to be honest, I consider a MOB to be a near death sentence if the boat is in any thing but smooth seas. Invest in proper gear to keep everyone secured to the boat.