Man-overboard drill in 25 knots?

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

I've read (and watched on YouTube) extensively and to be honest, I consider a MOB to be a near death sentence if the boat is in any thing but smooth seas. Invest in proper gear to keep everyone secured to the boat.

Agreed. Attitude and equipment equally. Each time I leave the cockpit to go forward at sea, I keep repeating to myself "If I go overboard, I WILL die".
Since I like to live, this keeps me much safer than almost any amount of MOB practice. But we did the drill anyway. Good practice in boat handling I suppose.

[gamayun]

I very much appreciate the OP wanting to learn from their mistakes and getting better at their MOB skills because the life they save may be (and is often more likely) from another boat in trouble.....

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2020/12...d-just-in-time

[Mr B]

I was in 6 metre waves and well over 40 knots at night, Dark as,
A huge wave came over the back of the boat and crashed over the whole boat,
It nearly washed me overboard except the cockpit covers took the brunt of it,
In those conditions, If I did go over, There is no way in hell even with an experienced crew onboard, They would ever have found me, I was dead and gone,
Highly unlikely they would find my body either in Bass Strait,

I got the cockpit clear of water, it was near full of water, Cleaned out the scuppers then went inside the salon,

I said to my passenger who knew nothing about sailing or driving the boat,
This is how the Epirb works, Press this Button, Shut the salon door and sit and wait for the cavalry to arrive,
Keep the Epirb with you inside the boat,
You will be quite safe inside the boat, With the door closed,

No one will be here till after day light tomorrow, The Epirb will give them your position, So they will find you easily enough,

Big waves will make a huge difference in finding a MOB, Especially in choppy waves,
Unless they have brightly coloured clothing on, Near impossible to see a head in the water,
You also need experienced crew still onboard to even think about saving a MOB in bad weather,

Cheers Brian,

[capn ken]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Off course it is and you should give it a go.. else when you need it in those conditions someone may die.
Practice it under motor and when you have that sussed then try under sail alone, engines are known to fail.

Practice makes perfect. You will sell them have a man overboard in ideal conditions. Don’t ask me how I know.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I very much appreciate the OP wanting to learn from their mistakes and getting better at their MOB skills because the life they save may be (and is often more likely) from another boat in trouble.....

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2020/12...d-just-in-time

I know Deadliest Catch is kind of ridiculous these days, but in one of the earlier seasons the Time Bandit illustrated this, too - one of the Hillstrands (boat owners/captains) spotted a crewman get swept off the stack of pots on a nearby boat and they jumped into action - it was pretty clear they’d drilled it, people all did their task right away. (Which, in that area, involves someone putting on a survival suit in case it’s necessary to help get the person in, I think.) I’m sure it’s on YouTube somewhere.

[Polski Gus]

Ditto to all the MOB suggestions. Practice whatever method you choose. However, since almost no one mentions this, have a more than sufficient means to get the person back on board!! You may, in many cases be dealing with an unconscious person whom can't assist and pulling 200 lbs of dead weight on board will be next to impossible - especially for boats with a lot of freeboard - particularly if there are only two people on board. It's extremely difficult even on dinghies and having just a ladder is not enough. All the practice in the world with a jug or float is useless if you can't get the person back on board!

[jackdale]

Four MOB techniques that I teach. In the upwind method the sails are not touched.

https://www.slideshare.net/JackDale/...ard-techniques

By heaving-to at the end, there are no luffing sails with which to deal.

[BayRidge35]

I’m a huge fan of heaving-to and circling in high-winds. Just last month while sailing off the Golden Horn on the south part of Brac (in Croatia), we encountered 25+ kts, and one of the sun-deck cushions tasted the amazing Adriatic water. We disappointed the onlookers with our heave-to technique and a clean pick-up. Grabbing a mooring ball was a different story!

[JordanH]

I have a couple comments, best made through sharing past experience.


Situation 1: A good friend of mine bought a brand new Beneteau 36.7 and asked me to join them for a sail. Surprised, I asked, "I didn't know you sailed!" He replies, "Oh, we sail down in the Caribbean." I boarded the boat and quickly learned that when they previously 'sailed', it was on someone else's boat, with someone else as a captain, and they were along for the ride. They had learned to tack on their new boat, but didn't now what a gybe was...
... I quickly was thrust into a teaching role on that first trip out.
After a few months of them learning on their own, in their big boat, they wanted to show me how much they had improved, but I could see they didn't take seamanship seriously (probably because of our benign lake conditions).


I asked them to do a man overboard drill in flat waters, at about 7 knots of true wind. I tossed a fender overboard and ask them to get near enough to it to simulate a pickup. They could not and told me it was impossible, nobody would be able to do that surely, and I was being too harsh and critical. They took the bait and challenged me to do it, and I was able to follow the old-school 'Triangle method' and get back to the spot to pick up the fender. I think that sunk home a little that they needed to improve their skills... but I doubt it.


My point: It's terrific that you want to improve your skills. You have done it in 10 knots. It can be done in 25. It can be done higher. You just need practice and the desire to reach those tiers of seamanship.


Situation 2: I was crewing on a race boat on an overnight race. The wind had crapped out at 9pm and the fleet was wallowing over night. At 2am, it was pitch black and I took a turn at the mainsheet. The wind picked up from 1 to 2knots... then 4.... then 2... then 6... then 4... etc. We had our largest spinnaker out and hadn't wanted to wake the crew. The wind built and built and crew started coming up on deck. The wind went to 12 knots... and JUST as we got the captain roused, it was blowing 14 and above with the big spinnaker out. A big gust roared through, spun us on our ear, coffee cups catapulted off the deck (RIP coffee cups). Some might call it "easing the main sheet", but I was dumping it so fast, I swear I was throwing it at the traveller. But dammit, the cockpit guy was hanging on, rather than blowing the boomvang. The boat was almost 90 degrees (So far over that I was dangling from the lifelines with one arm, feet, not on the deck, with the other hand dumping the main.


Someone could have easily been catapulted off the deck. In the dark. miles off shore. The one GOOD thing about a proper hard round-up is that you lose all your speed. If you DO lose someone in those conditions, you are most likely to come to a stop and then possibly drift back down onto them. If you can see them, that actually works in your favour.


In our case, we didn't lose any bodies and although the coffee was surely missed over the next few hours, it was the price for a valuable education.


Point: Round-ups CAN be very violent. Try to stop them before they happen (no need to be on the edge like that unless you are racing with good crew). When they do happen, blow all the sheets, and let the boat stop while you take stock of what / who is missing.


Finally... although the triangle and figure-8 and other methods can be used to pick up MOB's under sail, with TODAY's boats, it is often faster, safer and with a higher success rate to start the engine and use that instead (or with the sails).



J.

[CarlF]

I think the real weakness of man overboard drills is they were mostly designed for a racing crew not a 50-60 year old couple in a 45ft+ boat. A single handed MOB recovery in a large sailboat is dangerous for both rescuer and rescued. You need more than two eyes and hands.

Fortunately, the AIS MOB came along. We now wear them - even in the dinghy. I now instruct my wife that if I fall over her first move should be to hit the MOB on the chart plotter, the DSC on the VHF, and inflate her own life vest to activate her AIS MOB too (for good measure). Then issue a PAN PAN. Don’t watch me - focus on the boat, her safety, and getting help.

I saw an AIS MOB go off in Maine. Within seconds the CG came up on 16 and a half dozen boats responded. Several of these were professionals (like BoatUS) in fast boats who could effect a rescue much more safely than a single person in a high freeboard slow sailboat. Our chart plotter went nuts and we were 10 miles away.

Frankly I’d much prefer to be picked up by a pro in a big RIB or a lobsterman than my wife trying to stay in visual range, steer, deploy a life sling, and handle sails.

If we are far offshore such that no AIS equipped boat is nearby I tell my wife to take her time getting the sails down - safety first. No slam jibes or other risky maneuvers that could jam the furler or foul the prop in a line. Then motor back to the AIS MOB location on the chart plotter. Except in the coldest waters, I’m safer bobbing in my life jacket for an hour waiting for the chopper responding to the PAN PAN(AIS MOB signal range to aircraft is very far)

[merrydolphin]

I taught sailing at Club Nautique. US Sailing school in San Francisco bays and offshore waters. We regularly extensively train and practice COB in these conditions (25+) for yrs. Yes it is a challenge and yes it can be and is done regularly. Practice and crew coordination are what is needed.
And If you thinks thats hard, try it 10 miles off the pacific coast in 3-4 meter seas, at night! Yes we do that too. Hopefully in more like 2 meter. Seas but once you go out the Golden Gate, conditions can be challenging. We certified more people in coastal and offshore than any other US Sailing school. I use to tell my students that learning here prepared you for just about anything that you will need for world sailing except tropical “eyeball “ navigation. As a clear view of the bottom was pretty much non-existent there. High winds, heavy seas, cold water, fog, strong currents, massive shipping channels, all in abundance.
Light are sailing? Sure, in the mornings quite often.

Originally being a Florida sailor when I moved to SFO, I was listening to the VHF weather and thought that I heard “seas 14 feet” as there was a winter storm. I figured “well thats not too bad for such a storm. When I listened through again i accurate heard not 14 but FORTY feet. Holy cow! No thanks. (I was just sailing in the bay that day ). Yep, sailing SFO area is real sailing.

[Kolchac]

You must have good sailing experience to jibe at 25 kt, I think you don't.
Do tacking instead (circling), practice jibing at 15-20 kt.

[EngineerRetired]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I think the real weakness of man overboard drills is they were mostly designed for a racing crew not a 50-60 year old couple in a 45ft+ boat. A single handed MOB recovery in a large sailboat is dangerous for both rescuer and rescued. You need more than two eyes and hands.

Fortunately, the AIS MOB came along. We now wear them - even in the dinghy. I now instruct my wife that if I fall over her first move should be to hit the MOB on the chart plotter, the DSC on the VHF, and inflate her own life vest to activate her AIS MOB too (for good measure). Then issue a PAN PAN. Don’t watch me - focus on the boat, her safety, and getting help.

I saw an AIS MOB go off in Maine. Within seconds the CG came up on 16 and a half dozen boats responded. Several of these were professionals (like BoatUS) in fast boats who could effect a rescue much more safely than a single person in a high freeboard slow sailboat. Our chart plotter went nuts and we were 10 miles away.

Frankly I’d much prefer to be picked up by a pro in a big RIB or a lobsterman than my wife trying to stay in visual range, steer, deploy a life sling, and handle sails.

If we are far offshore such that no AIS equipped boat is nearby I tell my wife to take her time getting the sails down - safety first. No slam jibes or other risky maneuvers that could jam the furler or foul the prop in a line. Then motor back to the AIS MOB location on the chart plotter. Except in the coldest waters, I’m safer bobbing in my life jacket for an hour waiting for the chopper responding to the PAN PAN(AIS MOB signal range to aircraft is very far)

100% agree!

[Joli]

We believe in the quick stop, not a fan of the figure 8. Stop the boat, sort the sails and hopefully pick up the person. Pretty tough to get someone back aboard when things are sporty.

[Rowmance]

I read an article several years ago about recovering MOB in SF Bay. On a power boat, it was virtually impossible. A sailboat was only a little better at 15% success. Best bet 911, throw floatation and tow line and wait for life guards.


This was with 12-15kts winds and 1.5' waves.