Man-overboard drill in 25 knots?

[gamayun]

I think the real weakness of man overboard drills is they were mostly designed for a racing crew not a 50-60 year old couple in a 45ft+ boat. A single handed MOB recovery in a large sailboat is dangerous for both rescuer and rescued. You need more than two eyes and hands.

Fortunately, the AIS MOB came along. We now wear them - even in the dinghy. I now instruct my wife that if I fall over her first move should be to hit the MOB on the chart plotter, the DSC on the VHF, and inflate her own life vest to activate her AIS MOB too (for good measure). Then issue a PAN PAN. Don’t watch me - focus on the boat, her safety, and getting help.

I saw an AIS MOB go off in Maine. Within seconds the CG came up on 16 and a half dozen boats responded. Several of these were professionals (like BoatUS) in fast boats who could effect a rescue much more safely than a single person in a high freeboard slow sailboat. Our chart plotter went nuts and we were 10 miles away.

Frankly I’d much prefer to be picked up by a pro in a big RIB or a lobsterman than my wife trying to stay in visual range, steer, deploy a life sling, and handle sails.

If we are far offshore such that no AIS equipped boat is nearby I tell my wife to take her time getting the sails down - safety first. No slam jibes or other risky maneuvers that could jam the furler or foul the prop in a line. Then motor back to the AIS MOB location on the chart plotter. Except in the coldest waters, I’m safer bobbing in my life jacket for an hour waiting for the chopper responding to the PAN PAN(AIS MOB signal range to aircraft is very far)

Good post. I often sail with newbies and would never expect them to know how to handle my boat if I should ever go over. Depending on their skills, I tell them they should keep the boat from crashing into anything, press the AIS red button, and talk with CG. Interesting tidbit....I found out a few years back that Sector San Francisco has "eyes" on just about any part of the bay so if you give them basic landmarks such as "blue sailboat with COB about a mile east of Angel Island" they can pretty much find you visually. Maybe other active port entrance areas are similar.

[barnakiel]

MOB drill can be done in any conditions, ban conditions so bad that there is a considerable risk in the exercise.


We did MOB trials in full open ocean run in winds steady 25 and gusting 30-35.


Must admit though we never found that MOB ...

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I was in 6 metre waves and well over 40 knots at night, Dark as,
A huge wave came over the back of the boat and crashed over the whole boat,
It nearly washed me overboard except the cockpit covers took the brunt of it,
In those conditions, If I did go over, There is no way in hell even with an experienced crew onboard, They would ever have found me, I was dead and gone,
Highly unlikely they would find my body either in Bass Strait,

I got the cockpit clear of water, it was near full of water, Cleaned out the scuppers then went inside the salon,

I said to my passenger who knew nothing about sailing or driving the boat,
This is how the Epirb works, Press this Button, Shut the salon door and sit and wait for the cavalry to arrive,
Keep the Epirb with you inside the boat,
You will be quite safe inside the boat, With the door closed,

No one will be here till after day light tomorrow, The Epirb will give them your position, So they will find you easily enough,

Big waves will make a huge difference in finding a MOB, Especially in choppy waves,
Unless they have brightly coloured clothing on, Near impossible to see a head in the water,
You also need experienced crew still onboard to even think about saving a MOB in bad weather,

Cheers Brian,

Only chance in that is a good overboard light that all should wear. Makes it easier to spot COB than day. But yeah. 40 ikts and 6 m seas. Good luck.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

For me...best thing is not to fall overboard. im afraid my wife would leave be behind an collect on the life insurance policy. seriously..im not sure how skilled she is under those conditions.

abe

Apart from being funny, it is realistic. Most of the time I am the only skilled person on the helm. If anything happens to me, .... well, I pray a lot before we sail.

The other day, in high swells, a swell tipped our dingy in the davit, spilling all its contents. We just left the harbour/marina mouth. And with sail, I meant we were under engine power heading out.

Although I might be able to turn the Catamaran in the passage, there are treacherous rocks on the port and reefs on starboard.

Since I was busy righting the dinghy after the tip-over, I thought it natural to lower the dinghy (even in the swells), and I motored out to fetch the items.

Even with passangers who said they are capable, I soon realised I could only rely on them to keep the Cat nose to the swells, and I too felt uncomfortable to turn-about in the passage.

In retrospect, I gathered that if a powered dinghy is available and able, I found it a useable alternative in my circumstances, in a MOB procedure.

If in the night, I would probably not use the dinghy.
But turning our 44 Catamaran, if under sail only, with just one person on board,...is going to be a task. Loosing sight of the MOB a guarantee.

In short : as one person commented - there are other alternatives at times. I agree that with larger vessels, arresting your speed, evaluate the situation and then take informed decisions should be considerations - not merely following training as the only form of execution.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Unless they have brightly coloured clothing on, Near impossible to see a head in the water

Most of that clothing will also be underwater, so I wouldn't count on it. My foulies are pretty dark, but the hood is a bright fluorescent green. Coincidentally, that's about the only part that might be above the water. (Now that I think about it, some fluorescent wrist flashes would also be a good design addition.)

I figure, short of electronics or lights, the most visible item would be the bright yellow bladders of an inflated PFD.

[Don C L]

I don't have one of these and I haven't tried it, but I thought it looked like a really good idea. If you are floating in the water and someone has thrown you a cushion or a ring, it is REALLY hard for you to see it too unless it is calm. This inflatable MOB pole is easy for both MOB and boat to spot and gives the MOB (or COB) something to swim to. The only down side is that it looks like a good breeze will lay it down on the surface.
http://marine.the-justgroup.com/man-...-buoy/#more-36

I always thought an inflatable pole would be a good accessory for a PFD too.

[JPA Cate]

I guess maybe some of the men here haven't thought about the distress the wife will have if she does not try to go to your aid. Would she not want to learn how to stop the boat so (if you're conscious) you could swim over to the boarding ladder? IMO, most women would want to learn that. Heaving to is so easy. It is better to trash the spinny than lose the person. Some pretty open communication will help both of you here.

Some of you write as if it would be 2 or 3 min. in the water. Expect up to hours, at least 20-30 min. The potential rescuers have to launch the boat and get to where you are. It all takes time.

I would think a hand held VHF would help the unskilled woman on the boat to try and keep near to you, and till be able to communicate with a potential help giver. If you're unconscious when you hit the water, your chances of survival are vanishingly slim.

If you're on SF Bay, and separated from the boat, swim downwind towards the land. If the tide's going out, swim across it, do not try to head into it. Swimming downwind is much easier than upwind. Ditch your shoes, learn how to make floats from your jeans while you're in the water. There's lots you can do, if you only learn and practice the skills. And don't give up. Rest, if needs be, and keep going.

Ann

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by requiem

Most of that clothing will also be underwater, so I wouldn't count on it. My foulies are pretty dark, but the hood is a bright fluorescent green. Coincidentally, that's about the only part that might be above the water. (Now that I think about it, some fluorescent wrist flashes would also be a good design addition.)

I figure, short of electronics or lights, the most visible item would be the bright yellow bladders of an inflated PFD.

I had jeans and a shirt on, I was inside an enclosed cockpit,
no protective gear on,
I was not cold even tho outside it was very cold,
I have water triggered Led lights hanging on the door to the cockpit,
When the wave went over the boat, I was almost over the side,
I have two black floatys in the cockpit. Invisible in the dark conditions,

No way I could have grabbed the lights if I did go over, I was already gone,
Madam was sitting in the salon reading a book,
She didnt like looking out at the huge waves we were in,
How long before she would have even noticed that I was gone, ???????
The door was shut, I do every thing on board, Im in the cockpit driving the boat.
Would she have even been capable of thinking of throwing the Led lights over board.
Would she have become Hysterical, Who knows,

I just asked her what she would have done if I wasnt there,

She said she was already very rattled and upset with the two big bangs that had stopped the boat dead in its tracks, Big waves had hit us from different directions,
Not counting the one that went over the whole boat,
There are no safe anchorages along that part of the coast,
Behind Gabo Island is the only one there, Or around the corner to Danger Bay or Eden,

Head on into 6 metre waves and well over 40 knot winds going back to Lakes Entrance, Hahahahahahahahaha I dont think so,

She said, She would get on the phone and call the VRS or Police or some one, And try and get the Epirb working,
The some one could ring the Police or VRS for her,
She would stay inside till the Motor stopped working, Then, Who knows,
She is not a Young, Fit and Agile person, Nearly 70, So getting off the boat in those conditions, Totally Impossible for her,
Nothing was going to happen till after day light,

Its very dark outside, very black 6 metre waves,
We hadnt got to the lessons on driving the boat for her, But she was learning the other systems on board,
She had come a long way since her first trip and whats a Fender,
6 months before,

[jimp1234]

Spent a lot of class time doing MOB's in 20 - 25 knts on SF Bay so while it is hard it's doable with practice. For my money the easiest method is the "quickstop" or "upwind" method. With this method you've almost stopped the boat which is important, and with a sloop there shouldn't be a need to douse or adjust sails much. Starting the engine while performing the maneuver adds more options. Might consider Club Nautique, or Inspire (formerly OCSC) to do some practice classes. Overboard offshore, same survival odds as falling off a 2000 ft. cliff so wouldn't advise it.

[Mr B]

Overboard offshore, same survival odds as falling off a 2000 ft. cliff so wouldn't advise it.[/QUOTE]

At Night, Your odds, even less,

[DanielI]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

We did MOB trials in full open ocean run in winds steady 25 and gusting 30-35.


Must admit though we never found that MOB ...

My wife suggested this is better called an SOB drill; I countered it is more of an SOL drill…

[DanielI]

Funny that this should come up now… here’s what happened to me this afternoon.

Winds were about 10kn and predicted to peak around 13kn with no gusts. We raise sail, and almost immediately the winds start picking up. My daughter is at the helm, and initially is okay. Within about 5-10 minutes wind goes from 10kn to over 15kn, and my wife takes the helm. We are relatively new sailors, so this is hitting the upper end of our comfort zone. On the one hand, this is what we want to be practicing, on the other, it is gusting higher and higher, and, what is worse, it can’t decide which direction it wants to blow. (This is lake sailing, and I mean 180deg shifts in minutes.)

Another 5-10 minutes, and now it is 20kn gusting to 25kn. We’ve already furled the jib, and we went from “okay” to “we should go home” bypassing “let’s reef the main” entirely. As we are talking through that decision, we get a gust and round up, and I decide to drop the main, fast, just as my wife yells the same.

The main comes down quick, my wife starts the motor, and I go to tie it up as gusts are nearing 30kn, and she’s trying to get control back. That’s when…

…my hat is knocked off. I watch it roll across the bimini, and into the water.

I like that hat.

Well, if it was a real person, I might have been less worried about damage to the sails, and also more willing to risk loose sails making the boat hard to control. Under the circumstances, we continue to motor as I get everything secured. It takes longer than usual, because of the gusting. All the time I’m asking whether she feels comfortable turning around to get the hat.

Once I’ve got the mainsail secured, we turn around. Motoring, motoring, no luck. No sign of the hat. It must have gone under. We turn around again, and head back to our mooring. Oh well.

A few minutes later, “look, there’s the hat.” I grab the boat hook, and she makes a valiant effort, but as we get close, she loses sight of it. I can’t get the hook to grab, and she goes right over it. It disappears under the boat. And… gone. I just can’t see it anywhere. Oh well.

A few minutes later, once again, the hat! This time, she keeps it in sight. We needed to make a few passes before that hat, boat, and wind are all aligned and I hook the hat out of the water.

Afterwards we discussed what we would do differently if it had been a MOB rather than an HOB. I’m going to discuss it again tomorrow, because I don’t think we exhausted all the lessons learned.

One question I have: in a high wind situation where you don’t feel confident under sail, and you decide to switch on the engine, you can drop sail, but what is the fastest way to make sure the flopping sail doesn’t interfere with operations?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DanielI

One question I have: in a high wind situation where you don’t feel confident under sail, and you decide to switch on the engine, you can drop sail, but what is the fastest way to make sure the flopping sail doesn’t interfere with operations?

I have sail ties ready on the lifelines, easy to grab. I roll the sail up like a burrito, not fancy, just fast. I hold the sail ties in my mouth while I am doing it.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by DanielI

One question I have: in a high wind situation where you don’t feel confident under sail, and you decide to switch on the engine, you can drop sail, but what is the fastest way to make sure the flopping sail doesn’t interfere with operations?

This is why I like my lazy jacks, which are kept up while sailing (often solo) but loosened enough so they don't cause chafe. It's the only way I've found to keep the mainsail under control.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I have sail ties ready on the lifelines, easy to grab. I roll the sail up like a burrito, not fancy, just fast. I hold the sail ties in my mouth while I am doing it.

I prefer bungee cords similar to these for speed.. tying wastes time under pressure..
Bundle and bungee as you go.. just make sure you get the right sizes for your sail and they have a ball at each end for better grip..
Downside.. let one slip at full stretch and it hurts..