Masthead Tricolour?

[El Pinguino]

I recently found these pics while having a clean out.... taken over 20 years ago over two weekend sailings from Melbourne.... ie within a total period of maybe 8 hours.... to illustrate a piece I wrote back then to illustrate the dangers inherent in using masthead tri-lights inshore....

The last pic is of the ship they were taken from ... a pretty standard bridge 'height of eye' .

Lots of variables in mast heights / bridge HoE' combinations but how do you know your light isn't hidden in the shore lights?

Of course the most dangerous situation is when you are being overtaken and are on a steady or near steady bearing as seen from the ship... then you are just showing a steady fixed white in among a mass of steady fixed whites..... and we know that many sailors don't keep a good lookout astern...

[UNCIVILIZED]

I'm not entirely certain that I understand. Doesn't putting the lights up high make them that much more visible to your average bridge watchstander? Particularly given that the lights are similar in height vertically to where they'd be on a mid-sized ship, non?

[Pete7]

You don't and there isn't much you can do about it except have AIS and a radar reflector as other identifying methods. The one saving grace is the masthead is rarely still and tends to sway from side to side against the lights on a shore.

Works the other way too, ever tried to pick the nav lights out of a cruise liner? We were chased up the English channel by the Grand Princess one night. I know all about her because she was transmitting AIS but there was no way I could see the port side lights with all her decks lit up. Another intriguing one was a dredger with her powerful deck lights on at work. It was only later at dawn when she passed us that I worked out what she was.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I'm not entirely certain that I understand. Doesn't putting the lights up high make them that much more visible to your average bridge watchstander? Particularly given that the lights are similar in height vertically to where they'd be on a mid-sized ship, non?

No..... it **may** - as shown- put them against a background of city lights.....

Inbound on that run the approach was invariably made in darkness... VTS and radar made sure you knew all about any outbound commercial traffic... but seeing them against shore lights could be very difficult at a distance... trick was to look for the bit of 'blackness' against the shore lights where the bulk of the ship obscured them....

Pulpit and taffrail mounted lights are seen - from the bridge- against a background of black and -if you can see her bridge- the OOW can see your lights..

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You don't and there isn't much you can do about it except have AIS and a radar reflector as other identifying methods. The one saving grace is the masthead is rarely still and tends to sway from side to side against the lights on a shore. .......

You aren't aware of that movement until you are very very close... don't ask me how I know this....

[sailjumanji]

On our cat, we have the original location nav lights mounted on bow and stern (although now changed to led), and a second led nav/anchor combo on the masthead. Offshore we use the masthead, because we found the bow-mounted lights could not be seen in big seas. In the ICW, other boats tended to focus more at bow level, so we run those lights there. And never both sets of lights at same time.

[belizesailor]

Ues of TriColor is only technically valid outside of a COLREGS line, so it should not be in use inshore anyway.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ues of TriColor is only technically valid outside of a COLREGS line, so it should not be in use inshore anyway.

Theres no mention in COLREGS about where the lights may be used. Only says the required lights MAY be combined in one light at the masthead.

[jdazey]

And from the USCG:

Sidelights and stern light. Boats under sail under 20m (65.6 feet) can substitute a tri-color light for separate
sidelights and stern lights.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ues of TriColor is only technically valid outside of a COLREGS line, so it should not be in use inshore anyway.

You have lost me

Rule 25(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20m in length the lights prescribed in para (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at the or near the top of the masst where it can best be seen.

You spelt colour wrong

Pete

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You have lost me

Rule 25(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20m in length the lights prescribed in para (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at the or near the top of the masst where it can best be seen.

You spelt colour wrong

Pete

Hey, who changed the COLREGS! 😆

I swear I recall a retriction on use relative to COLREGS line bieing in there!

Anyway, apparentely not, but I do think the tricolor/colour is best suited for use when not in inland waters.

[Adelie]

In the US Inland rules apply to navigation on inland waters. The rule book is on my boat so I can't look up what it says about tricolor (sorry Pete, US rules here so US spelling) use. Will do so later.

I think there are separate rules for Western Rivers & Great Lakes. Wouldn't even know where to look for those.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Adelie

In the US Inland rules apply to navigation on inland waters. The rule book is on my boat so I can't look up what it says about tricolor (sorry Pete, US rules here so US spelling) use. Will do so later.

I think there are separate rules for Western Rivers & Great Lakes. Wouldn't even know where to look for those.

Here ya go:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...yIMtv5UQ0X8OmA

[Jim Cate]

Ping's point is that when viewed from the bridge of a large vessel, masthead lights are sometimes lost in background lights when inshore, and when offshore, their distance off is hard to determine. I've heard this from many merchant mariners, and believe it to be true. Being 50-100 feet above the sea really changes perspective!

When considering which lights to run offshore, one must decide whether being visible to ships is more important than being visible to smaller, low point of view vessels... ones whose own running lights may be hard for you to pick out at a distance. When you add AIS to the picture, the situation is additionally changed. Frankly, it is a difficult decision. We still prefer to run the masthead tricolo(u)r at sea, believing that our AIS signal will be of more use to ships than our puny lights, and hoping that the greater elevation will make us more visible to other yachts and fishing vessels (in the unlikely event that they are looking!) who may not have AIS on board.

Inshore it seems that running deck level lights is better.

No perfect solution IMO...

And thanks to El Ping for bringing it up... not many yotties are aware of the issue.

Jim

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ping's point is that when viewed from the bridge of a large vessel, masthead lights are sometimes lost in background lights when inshore, and when offshore, their distance off is hard to determine. I've heard this from many merchant mariners, and believe it to be true. Being 50-100 feet above the sea really changes perspective!

When considering which lights to run offshore, one must decide whether being visible to ships is more important than being visible to smaller, low point of view vessels... ones whose own running lights may be hard for you to pick out at a distance. When you add AIS to the picture, the situation is additionally changed. Frankly, it is a difficult decision. We still prefer to run the masthead tricolo(u)r at sea, believing that our AIS signal will be of more use to ships than our puny lights, and hoping that the greater elevation will make us more visible to other yachts and fishing vessels (in the unlikely event that they are looking!) who may not have AIS on board.

Inshore it seems that running deck level lights is better.

No perfect solution IMO...

And thanks to El Ping for bringing it up... not many yotties are aware of the issue.

Jim

Also I like the fact that tricolor is more visible in seas. If any significant sea state is running then deck level lights disappear when in the troughs.