Morgan OI 416 in reverse

[rgsims]

I have owned Seawalker a Morgan OI 416 Ketch for about two years and making many repairs and upgrades. Next on the list is haul out and paint the sides. I have had some interesting times backing the boat and I am considering installing a bow thruster. But I have to think that maybe it is just I don’t have enough time/experience with her. Just wondering if any others out there have advice.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by rgsims

I have had some interesting times backing the boat and I am considering installing a bow thruster. .

Too vague. What is the problem you're having? Is it the prop-walk in reverse?

IF so, look at the 'bump and fill' method for close quarter handling and reversing.

[pcmm]

I have a Morgan OI 415 (same hull) I only ever back into a slip when its absolutely neccessary and when its millpond calm! Morgans are not marina friendly boats and really don't like to back up at all! I've learned to work with my prop walk and only back in where I have no choice and the conditions are 500% favourable. My propwalk in reverse is soo heavy that when I reverse out of my slip I leave the rudder straight and let the prop walk turn me into the fairway! usually does it in 1 boat length!

Bow thruster would be neat but a luxury! I'd rather buy new sails!

[rgsims]

The design of the boat with the prop set to the starboard side the the wall just in front of the prop on the port side makes her back well to port and thats it. I am good at prop walk and wash but backing this boat in anything that looks like a straight line seems impossible.

[rgsims]

I have new sails and am looking to make it easier to single hand. I liked taking my last boat (Person 303) out single handed. But I have to think about the fact that this boat has been in the water for a long time and from Texas to the Bahamas several times. So do i go with luxury or spend more time on close quarter drills and spend that money making the boat look better. She needs the top side painted also. I am retired and on fixed boat funds.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by rgsims

The design of the boat with the prop set to the starboard side the the wall just in front of the prop on the port side makes her back well to port and thats it. I am good at prop walk and wash but backing this boat in anything that looks like a straight line seems impossible.

The proshaft is set to the portside in the deadwood. The lefthanded prop is what gives the propwalk to starboard in reverse.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by rgsims

I have new sails and am looking to make it easier to single hand. I liked taking my last boat (Person 303) out single handed. But I have to think about the fact that this boat has been in the water for a long time and from Texas to the Bahamas several times. So do i go with luxury or spend more time on close quarter drills and spend that money making the boat look better. She needs the top side painted also. I am retired and on fixed boat funds.

You're also talking about boats with vastly different characteristics! There is a reason we call OI's "Fat bottom girls" Long keels 14ft beam and a 27,000lb+ cruising weight all mean at low speeds they'll be sluggish at close quarters.

Single handing is easy, just use the mizzen to your advantage.

[rgsims]

Originally Posted by pcmm

The proshaft is set to the portside in the deadwood. The lefthanded prop is what gives the propwalk to starboard in reverse.

My propshaft is set to Starboard and is righthanded she goes to port.

[rgsims]

Originally Posted by pcmm

You're also talking about boats with vastly different characteristics! There is a reason we call OI's "Fat bottom girls" Long keels 14ft beam and a 27,000lb+ cruising weight all mean at low speeds they'll be sluggish at close quarters.

Single handing is easy, just use the mizzen to your advantage.

Yes I love the Mizzen and I love single handing her. I'm just nervous as (*&0 leaving and returning. I'm sure i will get over it with time. I've never seen one with a bow thruster thought i might find someone that has tried it.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by rgsims

Yes I love the Mizzen and I love single handing her. I'm just nervous as (*&0 leaving and returning. I'm sure i will get over it with time. I've never seen one with a bow thruster thought i might find someone that has tried it.

I've definitely seen them with bow thrusters. I don't have one but I do have lots of big fenders! and the big rubrail with the solid aluminum cap has its advantages too! We've taken our boat south as far as NYC and the big external rub rail is one of the best features!

[VanIslandGuy]

If you can get out in open flat water, pick a point on land as a reference and start backing the boat up. You might need 1.5-2kts for the rudder to start getting effective. Stand in front of the wheel and look towards the stern as you maneuver.

Once you can do the above, start practising 90' turns in reverse. Get going a decent length straight in reverse, then pick a point left or right 90' and steer towards it. Once going straight, again pick another point and reverse.

After about an hour of practice you'll start getting a sense of what the boat behaves like. Big keels, and small rudders don't track straight in reverse without a decent amount of water flowing over them. Once you get comfortable in reverse at speed you can start slowing the boat down until you discover the speed where your boat acts more like a cork and less like a vessel under your control. Once you know that speed, you'll instinctively go faster, and plan your docking with enough room to speed the boat up in reverse and get the rudder to become effective.

The book link below on your iPad or kindle is really helpful. The electronic version contains links to videos as well. It contains a ton of exercises to make handling your boat under power less of a chore, and more of a pleasure. I'd spend $15 dollars on it and a few gallons of diesel practising before spending one cent on a bow thruster. Good luck!


https://www.amazon.com/Maneuver-Dock...at+under+power

[masonc]

I've got a full keel Cheoylee Offshore 33. When backing out of a slip, she goes wherever she pleases, doesn't matter which way I turn the steering. When I have to, I run a long line to the dock and back, so I can slip it as I reverse to keep the boat facing forward, otherwise it could turn into due next slip. I can't pull the bow through the wind, once I left the marina, went out to sea, turned around and came back just to get to the slip on the windward side. The dock hands just stood laughing and giving me suggestions.

[a64pilot]

My IP goes into the wind when backing, until I get enough speed that I’m uncomfortable in tight places, then the rudder becomes effective.
Going forward of course prop blows water over the rudder so there isn’t an issue.

When we lived in a house and had the boat in a Marina I got good at docking, because I did it usually three times a weekend, every weekend.
Now we are cruising and I dock maybe once a month or so? I’ve lost my touch, a bow thruster would be nice, but they are expensive, take up space in the bilge I currently use for beer storage.
I think I’m just going to continue to wait for days of light wind to get fuel, cause that is the only reason I dock anymore, or close to it.

[rgsims]

Originally Posted by VanIslandGuy

If you can get out in open flat water, pick a point on land as a reference and start backing the boat up. You might need 1.5-2kts for the rudder to start getting effective. Stand in front of the wheel and look towards the stern as you maneuver.

Once you can do the above, start practising 90' turns in reverse. Get going a decent length straight in reverse, then pick a point left or right 90' and steer towards it. Once going straight, again pick another point and reverse.

After about an hour of practice you'll start getting a sense of what the boat behaves like. Big keels, and small rudders don't track straight in reverse without a decent amount of water flowing over them. Once you get comfortable in reverse at speed you can start slowing the boat down until you discover the speed where your boat acts more like a cork and less like a vessel under your control. Once you know that speed, you'll instinctively go faster, and plan your docking with enough room to speed the boat up in reverse and get the rudder to become effective.

The book link below on your iPad or kindle is really helpful. The electronic version contains links to videos as well. It contains a ton of exercises to make handling your boat under power less of a chore, and more of a pleasure. I'd spend $15 dollars on it and a few gallons of diesel practising before spending one cent on a bow thruster. Good luck!


https://www.amazon.com/Maneuver-Dock...at+under+power

When you have done that on a boat this model let me know. I've had some really good skippers try.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: " My propwalk in reverse is soo heavy that when I reverse out of my slip I leave the rudder straight and let the prop walk turn me into the fairway! usually does it in 1 boat length! "

Make this innate characteristic work FOR you. Trying to fight it is a mug's game!

You say your shaft is off-set to stbd and that your prop is a rightie. In that case you should be able to make your boat do a pirouette without changing her POSITION in the water.

1: Lay 'er dead in the water.
2: Lay the helm hard to port
3: Engage reverse and GOOSE 'er. Prop-walk will take her stern to port. When she's gone about a boat-length, come to idle.
4: Lay the helm hard to starboard
5: Engage forward and GOOSE 'er. Prop WASH on the rudder will take her stern further to port before she accelerates. When she's gone about a boat-length come to idle.
6: Engage reverse, and GOOSE 'er. When she goes dead in the water, prop-walk will take her stern further to port and she will stop in about a boat length. when she goes dead in the water, assist the swing by laying the helm hard a-port.
7: repeat steps 3 through 7 as often as required to make her pirouette through 360º (or as many degrees as you want.

When you can do this maneuver with confidence and precision, you can position her immediately off you finger slip and turn her through 90º or 270º as required. I said "goose 'er" because timidity will get you nowhere. The trick is to get her to change heading BEFORE she begins to accelerate. In a 15 ton boat that is not usually a problem ;-0)! If you are backing into a "box", it's easiest if your float is on your port side. If you must come to a float on your starboard side, you need to take thrust off while you are still in the fairway and let her "reach" take her in while you steer her solely on the rudder. You'll need about two knots of sternway to do that. In a boat with as much windage as yours has, that takes both guts and precision if there is much wind at all.

There are times when discretion is the better part of valour. Better to come to the hammerhead even if you have to raft than to damage you boat, let alone someone else's. :-)

TrentePieds