New furler too difficult to furl

[svHyLyte]

Have your sail maker make up a pendant out of the same luff tape used on the sail that you can attach to the head of the sail and with which the halyard spindle can be raised to the top of the foil. With that, and a proper halyard retainer at the head of the mast to create at least a 10º angle between the headstay and the halyard with the spindle/sail-pendant at full hoist, the furler will work properly with a tight headstay and eased halyard. With the foregoing, you will not have to run off or head to windward, but simply ease the leeward sheet.

BTDT...

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Umm... backing off headstay tension increases the sag, and this is counter productive. Are you perhaps referring to halyard tension?

Jim

Yes thanks Jim.

[Madwand]

Okay, I may have figured it out because it works properly now. I added $235 worth of stanchion lead blocks and pulleys.

I also discovered that my drum was fully loaded with line when it should only have a few wraps on it when furled. I'm not sure how I actually furled it and still wound up with a full drum.

I let the sheets loose and unrolled the drum except for four wraps, and then unwrapped the sheets and led them back.

I unfurled the sail and refurled it properly, holding tension on a sheet and the furling line, and it worked well.

The only thing I don't get is why is the aft pulley ratcheting? What does that accomplish? All I can see is it makes a cool noise when you're furling...

[UNCIVILIZED]

If you have the ratcheting block setup correctly, then it's function is to make it more difficult for the sail to accidentally unfurl itself when you're furling it. By means of adding more friction to the system in one direction.

Ratchet blocks use an 8-sided sheave, with each facet of the sheave being shaped somewhat like a clam cleat, towards the exact same end. To hold the line in place, with very little force needed to be applied by the person gripping the line in order to do so.

Most, if not all, ratchet blocks have a switch where by the ratcheting mechanisim can be turned on or off. Which, when it's on, the block will only rotate in one direction. And the block functions as an underpowered clam cleat in the other, non-rotating, direction.

They radically boost one's ability to hold a loaded line, as well as assisting in pulling in said line when you choose to. Almost like pulling in on a line led through a clutch. Though they're not entirely a 1-way "switch" as are clutches, when the ratchet mechanisim is turned on.

[Madwand]

http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=7402
The instructions say to orient it so it ratchets (clicks) when you pull on the line. When the line goes out, it just turns like any other pulley. There is nothing that causes tension or restrains the line from flying out. That is with the switch on. With the switch off, it's just a free spinning pulley. It does nothing either way.

[UNCIVILIZED]

There are a few Harken ratchet blocks that automatically engage & disengage the ratcheting feature as needed, per how much load is on the line. Often known as ratchet-o-matic blocks. While other, usually higher load type, ratchet blocks, allow the user to engage or disengage the ratchet function of the block. And it's some of these which have 8-sides sheaves, as I described earlier. Albeit some versions of ratchet blocks have been phased out in recent years. But here are some of the manually controllable ones Harken

There's more info on the topic here Harken
More info on multiple ratchet block topics --> Harken

The most common uses for ratchet blocks that I've seen are;
Mainsheets
Spinnaker sheets (small/mid-sized boats)
Furling control lines
Bosun's Chair Tackles - For Self-hoisting

[Madwand]

Those seem nice, but 7402 is the one Harken sold me. I guess $95 aint enough for it to do anything, you need a $200 one.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Not having a 7402 & an old school manually switchable ratchet block in front of me, I can’t for certain say what the differences between them are. But best guess & explanation is that your 7402 is comparable to a CVT transmission in a car. Where a manually switchable one is like a manual transmission (stick shift). And that when it’s operating, the 7402 is like a CVT in that you never notice it doing anything, AKA “shifting gears”. Unlike in a car with a manual (or older automatic) transmission.
Thus it’s tough to even notice that your ratchet block is actually giving you any benefits.

I could be wrong. And for the kind of coin you’ve spent, you’re probably right to ask. So give Harken a call. They’ve built a good bit of their business based primarily on the quality of their customer service. Along with the quality of the products (of course). But they’re always more than happy to help when I call them. And have been for the 3 decades I’ve been ringing them up.

Also, do a bit of digging around on their website, including via the links I posted. And if you want competitive hardware in terms of types of hardware functions, at perhaps a better price, try Ronstan. They make quite a lot of racing hardware, & it’s good stuff. Garhauer’s good gear too, though their hardware lines don’t have the depth of the aforementioned pair, but otherwise it’s reputed to be top notch. Schaefer’s simple, & functional. Reasonable in terms of what you spend. And the one big one I’m avoiding mentioning, I avoid buying. On my dime, or anyone else’s. Think made in the UK, as in the guys who make/sell Delta anchors.

[Madwand]

So Harken says it should click in one direction and not turn in the other direction and there must be something wrong with it and said send it back for a replacement. Which would be great except that I don't go back to the boat for two weeks, remove the part and mail it, at my expense, then two weeks later go back to the boat again. So maybe a month from now, I can install the part I paid a lot of money for.

To me that is some cr@ppy service. How about you take my CC number and send me a good one and don't charge me if I return the other one so I can use what I paid for next time I go to the boat? Sorry, that makes too much sense, I guess.

Not to mention I just spent two thousand dollars on their furler...

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Madwand

So Harken says it should click in one direction and not turn in the other direction and there must be something wrong with it and said send it back for a replacement. Which would be great except that I don't go back to the boat for two weeks, remove the part and mail it, at my expense, then two weeks later go back to the boat again. So maybe a month from now, I can install the part I paid a lot of money for.

To me that is some cr@ppy service. How about you take my CC number and send me a good one and don't charge me if I return the other one so I can use what I paid for next time I go to the boat? Sorry, that makes too much sense, I guess.

Not to mention I just spent two thousand dollars on their furler...

I'm gonna ask what seems like a "stupid" question, but you DID turn on the ratchet right? there should be a "switch" on the side of the ratchet block that turns the ratchet on and off...


the ESP 1 should have cost you A LOT less than $2K USD! I just took delivery of a Harken ESP 2 (much larger size) and it was only $2500 (Taxes included) Canadian!!!!! Thats mostly why I bought it! its the least expensive furler on the market by a lot of $$$ and its a Harken!

[Madwand]

I rounded up on the price a little, I had to pay for a new forestay and extra extrusion for my tall mast.

Yeah, the switch is on, the block just spins freely the other way. Sounds like I just got a bad one though.

[UNCIVILIZED]

You're clear on the difference in how the different types of ratchet blocks work though, right?
"Type A" - Harken
"Type B" - Harken
Both are the same size, & both are ratchet blocks, but one needs human interaction in order to function either as a standard block, or as a ratchet block.

If it does turn out that you got a dud, then were it me, I'd ask them for any kind of reasonable treatment/favor which springs to mind. Especially given who they are. Plus the power of the internet, etc. Though I'd hold off on the last bit until things were resolved/they treat you abysmally. Including that I'd want to have the block in my hand when I called them & told them it's a dud.

Can someone in your marina send you the block, so that there's no 2 week lag?

[Madwand]

I have
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=7402
Harken said I should let the line fly and it would feed out slowly. I kind of don't believe that anyway as there's nothing to keep the line engaged in the "teeth." Regardless, that's the one I got and he said the wheel should only turn in the ratchet direction.

I called back and got them to charge me for 1 and mail it this week and they'll just take the old one back and refund me if it's bad.