Oil slick in a storm to calm swell

[maury]

I am exploring all aspects of storm maneuvers and came across a concept of using certain natural oils o create a slick. Supposedly this was done in the olden days. I tried it with organic olive oil which I happen to have on hand but it did not spread very well. Has anyone played with this concept?

Part 1 https://www.facebook.com/1222430078/...1Rxyn7rQB7al/?

Part 2 Part 2
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Ttq...artTimeMs=1000

It works with many types of vegetable oils and for extends miles they say. This sounds like a preventative medicine in a storm for a boat at sea. What do you think?

[SeanPatrick]

Bro...


This sounds like complete nonsense. But I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt* and try an experiment. A perfect application would be in an artificial horizon used for celestial navigation.


You can put a glass 'tent' over a tray of water to keep the wind from disturbing it. But then, the water evaporates and fogs up the glass. More viscous liquids are better at preventing surface defects due to wind, but they are a pain to use and clean up.


If this technique works for an artificial horizon, I'll be forever in your debt. But as for whether or not I'd trust it as a method for saving my boat, well ...









*The videos you linked to are from a science channel I occasionally watch. I had to check the date to make sure they weren't posted on April 1st, because this guy seems sane.

[boatman61]

I believe some here have tried it.. how effectively has varied but I should advise you, it does nothing for the swell but it's supposed to smooth out the wind waves by decreasing the tendency to break.. you drift back so to speak while the oil slick gradually ends up upwind to a large extent.
I would be concerned about oil ending up on decks making life really dangerous.
Organic olive oil..? that's liquid gold these days, stick to cheap cooking oils.

[Don C L]

It is indeed a remedy recommended in old books for preventing waves upwind of you from breaking. I haven't tried it though. This topic has come up in past threads too, you might do a search for it. But one can always google it too. (As you showed in your videos) Remember this is only helpful if you plan to stay in the area where the oil offers its calming effect, as in when a sea anchor is deployed or if you are hove to in a boat that tends to stay put or drift downwind slowly away from the slick.

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopener...mmiscible.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_oil
https://physics.stackexchange.com/qu...-and-if-so-how

[Windpilot]

After some extensive sailing including a N Pacific crossing and back I have come to the conclusion that the odds of being in a situation where you will assume this (proven) technique are near zero.
These days we have enough weather forecast options that you should not find yourself in a situation that this should be necessary. If so, it was captain error.
Like drag devices or liferafts, you should have aboard, hopefully never to be needed.
It also begs the question if dumping oil overboard is even allowed, even in emergency.

[maury]

In the first line video used an example of cod liver oil which the ship in the example happen to be transporting.A spoonful of olive oil was just a test with what I had on hand, if it was a viable concept I would carry something cheap. As for the legality of putting spoonful of vegetable oil overboard on the ocean where I plan to be off shore I would be surprised if there are laws regulating this especially when many pump heads at sea beyond set distance.. The oil getting on deck is a good concern.. As for an artificial horizon, interesting concept.

[Bowdrie]

The old axiom about spreading oil on "troubled waters" is very true.
It was frequently used by a vessel that was stopped to pick up a small boat or the people in them.
Even though the larger vessel could form a lee, when the seas were too rough they would spread oil on the leeward side to smooth the water for the little boat to come alongside.
Well into the last century lifeboats were regularly equipped, (it was mandatory for an inspected vessel,) with a container of oil and a canvas bag to put it in.
Sailboats in rough weather also used oil on occasion, the oil bag hung from the bow on a boat hove to, or dragged astern from a boat running before the seas was not uncommon practice even into the '50s.
Olive oil, vegetable oil? Those are mostly BS.
Ships would use the heavy oil their slow-turning engines used, or steam oil.
Small boats using the "bag" technique would use an oil about what we would call 20 weight motor oil.
The bags were of flax, kinda like the old canvas water bags people hung on the bumpers of their cars in the '40s/'50s when driving thru desert regions.
Now you know "The rest of the story".
Oh, you want a good artificial horizon?
You'll do no better than a dish of murcury.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW: From memory, the method was indeed only used when hove to and not making headway... where the natural slick from the upwelling of water from under the keel was being maintained upwind of the boat. The oil was usually contained in a closely woven hemp bag, or a tin can, often with deliberate small holes to allow easier egress for the oil. The oil used was simply known as "fish oil", source unknown to me. And the quantities used were not spoonfuls, but more like liters/day.

It was a common means of diminishing the effects of breaking seas. I believe my knowledge of it most likely came from old editions of Adlard Coles "Heavy weather Sailing" tomes.

Jim

[GordMay]

Evidently, Ben Franklin studied the phenomenon of, “pouring oil on troubled waters” [1], and referred to it as “wave-stilling”. Franklin hypothesized that oil reduces the friction, between air and the surface, of the water, dissipating energy, thus reducing white-caps, and spindrift [but not, as Phil notes (post #3), wave/swell height].
Supposedly, it smooths the surface of the water [acts as a lubricant], so the wind has no rough surface, to drag on, and cause the waves to spray, and break.

[1] “Of the Stilling of Waves by means of Oil” ~ by Benjamin Franklin et al (1774)
➥ https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rstl.1774.0044

[2] “The Use of Oil in Storms at Sea” ~ by A. B. Wyckoff (1886)
➥ https://www.jstor.org/stable/983222

A more modern view:
[3] “The calming effect of oil on water” ~ by Peter Behroozi et al (2007)
➥ https://pubs.aip.org/aapt/ajp/articl...dFrom=fulltext
From the Abstract:

Originally Posted by Behroozi

“From the attenuation data at frequencies between 251 and 551Hz, we conclude that the calming effect of oil on surface waves is principally due to the dissipation of wave energy caused by the Gibbs surface elasticity of the monolayer, with only a secondary contribution from the reduction in surface tension. Our data also indicate that the surface-dilational viscosity of the oil monolayer is negligible and plays an insignificant role in calming the waves...

[Benz]

Whatever you use, there's a good chance of getting it all over the decks, I have from anecdotal evidence. I'd be inclined to use the heaviest oil I had, but I'm not sure I'd bring a dedicated sort of oil for a contingency so remote as wanting to use this trick, given how many other necessary things must be brought on a small boat.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Benz

Whatever you use, there's a good chance of getting it all over the decks, I have from anecdotal evidence. I'd be inclined to use the heaviest oil I had, but I'm not sure I'd bring a dedicated sort of oil for a contingency so remote as wanting to use this trick, given how many other necessary things must be brought on a small boat.

Absolutely, with low topsides, it will end up on the deck...in the old days this risk was reduced. Sure, no need to bring a dedicated source of oil, just use the dirty black stuff that came out of your engine, it means of course that you can't use the traditional shore based environmentally friendly solutions, but hey, who cares about that, just store it up in the bilge.

Speaking of caring...Not the 4000 cruise ship tourists, dumping s##t everywhere that for sure!!... at least they often do it far away from home (thank God for that) like the arctic ...I mean the arctic is not really in the environment....its about as far away from the environment as you can get.


Oh look darling, is that a polar bear, it seems to be covered in oil, is that oil darling, it doesn't smell like oil....just a minute honey, i'm on the toilet.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Benz

... I'd be inclined to use the heaviest oil I had ...

Originally Posted by Fuss

Absolutely, with low topsides, it will end up on the deck...in the old days this risk was reduced. Sure, no need to bring a dedicated source of oil, just use the dirty black stuff that came out of your engine, ...

To produce the desired effect, one must use the right kind of oil, and it must be applied in the right manner.

If I understand the physics correctly [I may not], and were to employ this strategy [I wouldn’t], I’d use a light weight vegetable, fish, or animal oil, of low viscosity*.
In earlier times, whale oil would be used.
Engine oil [and other petroleum derivatives], for instance, will have scarcely any beneficial effect.

The oil should not be poured on the troubled waters; it should be leaked on, drop by drop.
The traditional [and best?] method, is to put cod liver [or olive*] oil, or something of that nature, in a canvas bag, stuffed with rags, and hang the bag over the side, so that it just touches the surface of the sea.
The oil then oozes out through the canvas, and spreads out on the surface, in a thin film that that reduces spindrift [spray].
The oil is not poured, because a thick, heavy, film of oil is less effective, than a thin, light one, for the surface tension of the oil increases, as its thickness decreases, and the thinner the film the better.

* In simple terms, viscosity is the measurement of the internal friction of a liquid, or its resistance to flow. Low-viscosity fluids may be described as thin and light. High-viscosity fluids may be described as thick and heavy.

* Benjamin Franklin probably used olive oil, in his experiments.

[Fore and Aft]

Maury we accidentally pumped at least 10 litres of oil through the exhaust of a big power boat. It didn't seem to calm the ripples in the marina. But caused a big drama as we cleaned it all up.
Cheers

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Absolutely, with low topsides, it will end up on the deck...in the old days this risk was reduced. Sure, no need to bring a dedicated source of oil, just use the dirty black stuff that came out of your engine, it means of course that you can't use the traditional shore based environmentally friendly solutions, but hey, who cares about that, just store it up in the bilge.

Speaking of caring...Not the 4000 cruise ship tourists, dumping s##t everywhere that for sure!!... at least they often do it far away from home (thank God for that) like the arctic ...I mean the arctic is not really in the environment....its about as far away from the environment as you can get.


Oh look darling, is that a polar bear, it seems to be covered in oil, is that oil darling, it doesn't smell like oil....just a minute honey, i'm on the toilet.

My point was, don't haul any sort of oil all over the place in case you need it, since the chances of needing it, ever, are pretty slim. FWIW, since I don't have a diesel engine, there's never more than a quart of heavy oil on my boat at any time. But Gord just showed us that light oil is best, so my instinct there was wrong.
Not sure why either the arctic or cruise ships are being brought into this...it's a bit of a non-sequitur.

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Oh, you want a good artificial horizon?
You'll do no better than a dish of murcury.

Tell me about it. Unfortunately, mercury is not as easy to get as it used to be ... now that we know how dangerous it can be. I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to part with a small jar of the stuff, but he won't sell it. (Which is a shame, because he isn't using it for anything.)