Sail handling without winches

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by ms.lau

Thank you for your replies so far. I'm currently "between boats", last one was 34' but I'm thinking of more like 24' next time. I'm just looking at the cost of outfitting and the price of gear. The price of a small secondhand winch seems to be quite massive. Why use stainless rigging instead of galvanised? Moitesseir was keen on using clamps instead of splicing steel rigging. He also talked about greasing halyards (and sheets?) to make them last longer. A boat without an engine... All these things are interesting to consider...

On a 24ft boat you do not need winches at all. Run everything as single lines then make up a couple of 3 or 4 part tackle with loops to make prusik knots on the end. In fair weather you can just sweat halyards and hand pull sheets as long as you time tacks. If you miss a tack or when its rough you will need the tackles for the last 5%. I would recommend a book called 'Hand Reef and Steer' for traditional methods of sailing if you can still get a copy. If not scour the used book lists for sailing books written pre 1960. Id did my coastal skippers ticket on a 45ft schooner that had no winches and it was fine but did need more crew (about 4)

[tenchiki]

I single-hand a 24ft sailboat (Yankee Dolphin) on SF Bay. It is a masthead rig with a tall mast, so largish jibs/genoas. As long as I undersize the jib, I can usually sheet the jib when short-tacking without needing to use the handle. Though I am really glad that I upgraded to self-tailers a few years ago when West Marine had a "two for one" sale! (the second-best upgrade after new sails).


And yes, used non-self-tailers are relatively cheap at places like Blue Pelican Marine (in Alameda, CA). There is also a product called a Wincher, that turns any winch into a pseudo-self-tailer fairly cheap.

[Djarraluda]

Ocean Youth Club (Pommyland) in 70s had a fleet of 70 ft ketches. With a large crew of trainees, 2 mates and skipper. With lots of young healthy (?) hands to keep busy, it was policy to avoid winches, 4 and 6 part purchases abounded, but it was a lot of line and a flailing block could have done serious damage. I do seem to recall a staysail winch though. Also the earlier boats had a massive tiller, so in a bit of a breeze, lightest crew sat on the tiller to observe the compass, 2 others to reward with feet up onto the tiller to push. So yes, even modern (well the Ocean 70 was not exactly an old design, but not really modern either by todays standards) yachts were built to use block and tackles, that did involve a lot of willing muscle power and very experienced, safety conscious supervision. Give me a winch any day!
Roger

[Donnybrook]

This thread reminds me that the winch handle is a critical tool. I've sometimes thought about what I would do if I was alone and my winch handles were lost or stolen.

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by johnn33

Merriman https://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Win...an_Winches.php


John

The panels are still available and although not “merriman” manufactured the same winch is still in production and had cheap. I’m not sure the name of that style of winch as compared to say a self tailing winch.

[Panope]

Panope (34ft, 15K lbs) has no winches.
-Main is 480 sq ft with 3 part halyards and 7 part sheet.
-Working Jib is 120 sq ft with 2 part halyard and 2 part sheets.

No problem for strong(ish) persons.

Steve

[bailsout]

A ketch might not fit your definition for simple, but the H28 Ketch allows small enough sails that allow me to not need a winch handle for sheets or halyards, although the ratcheting feature and friction make things easier. If the winch were to seize it would at least still serve as a pivotal and belaying/braking point. A 24’ boat would certainly ease and simplify things.

[smacksman]

My 17 ton oyster smack, 65 ft overall, (as in my avatar) has no winches and all sail handling is done with tackles. Here is a page on my site giving details of the power of tackles -

Sailing Smacks Tackles; Their types, use and power statistics
A roving (it can be moved around kind of roving) 6 part tackle and use of a rolling hitch can tension up a line quite well.

[tjr818]

Jolie Brise never had any winches, all work was done with tackle.
Here is a worthwhile video of her and be sure to listen to the skippers comments about today's boats vs. Jollie Brise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzyGJeQg7bc

[GrowleyMonster]

Install another winch or two, is my suggestion. And more cleats so you can stop off a line and make it fast and open up your winch(es) for a different line.

Even on my 44' sloop I can sail without winches for the sheets, if I want to. I really only need the winches for halyards.I will fineprint myself here and say I don't have enough cleats handy, so I still take a few turns on a winch, but I don't need to crank on a winch to pay out, and if I head up a little I can usually harden up the jib or the main, either one, without cranking, then fall off again and have those big sails right where I want them.My first three sailboats were without winches/and only one was anything like you would call a dinghy, being a homebuilt plywood skiff.

But devils advocate and all that... there are lots of books with lots of ideas about various tackle arrangements. ALL rely on pulling a lot of line to get a stronger pull instead of less line for the same pull. Things can get quite unmanageable without plenty of places to store lines where they can quickly be made ready to pay out or take in again. In some cases, the amount of rope needed can be reduced by use of a pendant to which the block is fixed, instead of having the block attached directly to the thing being pulled. You can also make a block fast at any pont that is convenient with a stopper, though you may need a hand to hold the stopper.

For hardening up a halyard or backstay or whatever, you could also use a cheap come-along.

All in all, though, if you simply cannot handle the boat with the one winch you have, then the simplest and possibly even cheapest remedy would be to install another winch or two or three. Have you not wondered why so few new boats are built and fitted out without winches? A winch is simply the easiest and most convenient way to haul in on a line when there is too much resistance to simply haul it in hand over hand or to jump it in.

[skipmac]

Lots of posts from boaters talking about boats without winches. However, I don't think there was ever any doubt that a sailboat could be managed without winches. I think the more pertinent question for the OP is whether or not that is practical or advisable for the boat in question.

[col50]

Originally Posted by ms.lau

Thank you for your replies so far. I'm currently "between boats", last one was 34' but I'm thinking of more like 24' next time. I'm just looking at the cost of outfitting and the price of gear. The price of a small secondhand winch seems to be quite massive. Why use stainless rigging instead of galvanised? Moitesseir was keen on using clamps instead of splicing steel rigging. He also talked about greasing halyards (and sheets?) to make them last longer. A boat without an engine... All these things are interesting to consider...

Greasing sheets and halyards; why didn't I think of that?

[lo2jones]

Hard to get long responses: I’m a former schooner skipper. Sweat notches on boats over 60 work fairly well, and block and tackle only work on smaller boats 30&<. In the middle it’s hard to get the leverage to sweat a jib sheet.

[Rainbow48]

The current (Nov/Dec) issue of “WoodenBoat” magazine has an article on “Rainbow”, traditionally rigged singlehander with no winches. Some discussion on block and tackle is included in the write-up.

[secrabtree]

One thing I haven't seen talked about here is safety. When the wind strength increases and one feels it necessary to douse the jib it is usual for a crew member (or the singlehanded skipper) to get on the foredeck to catch and stow the jib. Once the sheet is let loose the jib begins to flail, often quite violently. A block on the clethod.mew becomes a hazard. But with a winch and single part sheet that block's dangerous projectile becomes only the lighter weight clew cringle. Still hurts when hitting the head, but usually doesn't draw blood - as had happened to me a few times when I was trying out the "block on the clew" method. The "block on the clew" method probably would have been ok when I sailed the California coast south of Pt. Conception. But my usual sailing was within San Francisco Bay or on many passages between Hawaii and San Francisco.