Sailing off the windward side of a dock

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Just to be sure I understand, when you say the windward side of the DOCK it means the wind coming over your boat and then to the dock, right?

Yes, that.

The subject of getting off a dock that's leeward of the boat under power has been discussed many times and it isn't that hard if you take your time and prepare.

I have followed those discussions, and performed that maneuver myself.


I find the possibility of performing the maneuver under sail to be an interesting expression of sailing skill, and possibly of practical value when overall circumstances are poor. There is a tacit presumption that midsize and larger yachts (~35'+) are simply not ever sailed to or from a landing or mooring.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by MartinR

The traditional way: Row out a kedge, haul/winch the boat up to the kedge, set sails, retrieve the kedge and sail away.

Absolutely - the only way to do it safely and under control. Equally in a marina situation take a line across to the other pontoon, float it back to the boat with a fender the haul off to the leeward pontoon and leave from there. These days many people seem to have forgotten the art of warping boats around in the habour. A 50m floating line and a kedge will solve most maneuvering problems with a little practice. Still taught in the better sailing schools and one of the advantages of taking an advance skippers course like the RYA.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Benz

What if the wind is dead on the beam or forward of it? There's gonna be a point where the wind is too strong to sail off no matter what--after all, the rest of the boat is feeling the action of the wind as well.

Even in those situations where there is no choice but to come alongside the windward side of a dock, there is a choice whether to face bow to the weather or stern to the weather. Even if coming alongside on starboard to take advantage of more favorable prop walk, the wind will be forward of the beam half the time.

It seems, though, that sailing off a fuel dock is kind of silly, since in all likelihood you were there to fuel up your engine. In which case, unless the wind in really rowdy, you should always be able to spring the stern off and back into clear water.

That would, indeed, be customary.


There are all kinds of tales where people couldn't because the prop walk would not overcome the wind and current under the particular circumstances at hand.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

These days many people seem to have forgotten the art of warping boats around in the habour.

Truth.


I think of myself as being inexperienced but I do not see other boats even attempt to warp their way around.

[JOHNMARDALL]

This is a simple maneuver. When you are ready to leave the dock (in effect a lee shore onto which you are pinned), single up the dock lines on bites, so that they can be let slip without leaving them at the dock, raise the mainsail and let it luff, let go and retrieve all lines except the stern spring, then activate the bow thruster, and stern thruster if your boat has one. When the boat is well positioned to sail away, let go the spring line and retrieve it, then tighten the mainsheet until the sail fills. Use the thruster(s) to keep the boat pointed in the right direction, unroll the genoa and set it. Sail away.

I hope this helps.

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

[sailjumanji]

Port motor in forward, starboard motor in reverse. Raise the sail afterwards. Also works well when wind is directly abeam, and you have boats tied up in front and behind you. Otherwise if you are going to sail off a dock, you better know what you are doing, and have your liability insurance paid up!

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Yes, that.







I have followed those discussions, and performed that maneuver myself.


I find the possibility of performing the maneuver under sail to be an interesting expression of sailing skill, and possibly of practical value when overall circumstances are poor. There is a tacit presumption that midsize and larger yachts (~35'+) are simply not ever sailed to or from a landing or mooring.

Most of the time i sail my 45 foot cat onto moorings, a practice that seems to create consternation in many on this board!

[KimSails]

...then activate the bow thruster, and stern thruster if your boat has one...

...Port motor in forward, starboard motor in reverse.

OR ask Aquaman to telepathically contact his aquatic friends for help pulling the boat off the dock.

At least on my boat (only one motor, and no bow thruster, let alone a stern thruster) that approach would be just as likely to work.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Maybe with a sub-25' boat with no lead in the keel, but a larger boat? It takes a lot just to push the boat 2' off the dock let alone enough to have the stern rotate past it.

I'm guessing your leaving that line on the dock when your done also.

Certainly not. Pass a bight, not an eye. Make off the bitter end and the standing part, both, on the boat. To cast off, let go the bitter end, pull on the standing part and bring it all back on the boat. If it gets hung up (if you are not careful, it can, sometimes) and you can't get it back, then you might have to leave it, yeah but the idea is to cast off the bitter end from the boat and pull it all around the piling or dock cleat or bollard or what have you, back onto the boat.


I have done this in a Catalina 30 with one crew. A Catalina 27 and also a Cal 2-27 singlehanded. Takes a hell of a shove, with a stout boathook for a longer shove, but it can be done. Or you can just wait for the wind to stop setting you on. Or kedge. Or borrow an outboard. Or just not go anywhere until you have a working engine. Whatever. Me, I much prefer to have some mechanical power available inside a harbor and I would rather simply not sail into or out of a marina in the first place but I have done it. Just remember you have to not only get off the dock a bit, but also get some way on, immediately. Not after the sails have been drawing for a minute, but immediately. The wind won't stop and wait for you. There is no timeout.


Yes, a sub 25' daysailer is way easier. A dinghy? Little kids do it. A ballasted displacement boat takes some muscle and if it is really blowing, it can be impossible. The OP did not state how much wind we are talking about.

[thomm225]

Another thing to consider if the wind is too far forward is backing up.

This is another Beach Cat tactic when getting to close the start line

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Just not gonna happen on any larger displacement keelboat in any appreciable breeze. Yes it’s probably possible with a 25’ boat in just the right circumstances but a keelboat needs flow over the keel to create lift.

I could no more sail off a dock with 15 knots ahead of the beam than I could fly to the moon...except if there were no boats in front of me, there was room past the end of the dock, and I was itching for a new paint job.

That's funny and thanks. I didn't want to be the only one here thinking there was no chance in hell I'd get out without huge repair bills - mostly to other peoples boats.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

This is a simple maneuver. [...]


let go and retrieve all lines except the stern spring, then activate the bow thruster, and stern thruster if your boat has one. When the boat is well Sail away.

I hope this helps.

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

Errmmm, the challenge was to "sail off", which, in my book, doesn't include any motor or thruster help... hence there is nothing simple about this at all.

As mentioned before, this can rarely be seen "in the wild" because it's either not allowed to sail in the harbour or the harbour is too tight for any safe maneuver under sail (and quite likely your insurance wouldn't cover you for such a stunt).

In the old days it had to be done if you didn't have an engine in the first place, but back then there were much fewer other boats around and hence more room.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

Errmmm, the challenge was to "sail off", which, in my book, doesn't include any motor or thruster help... hence there is nothing simple about this at all.

As mentioned before, this can rarely be seen "in the wild" because it's either not allowed to sail in the harbour or the harbour is too tight for any safe maneuver under sail (and quite likely your insurance wouldn't cover you for such a stunt).

In the old days it had to be done if you didn't have an engine in the first place, but back then there were much fewer other boats around and hence more room.

Surely you realize that John Mardall sells thrusters: his post was a tongue-in-cheek way of stating that no one should ever have to sail off a dock. The problem is solved if they give his firm some business.

[richr]

I am calling out the beach cat guy.

First, regardless of your diamond tension or any of the other stuff you raise, you can't sail your beach cat off a dock. You can't sail forwards without making some leeway as you accelerate. Same for every sailing boat under the sun and particularly true for any yacht with a high-aspect keel or cboard. There's no way you can sail your beach cat off the dock.

The best hope the OP has is in a long-keeled yacht with minimal bow freeboard. Those are the yachts that make least leeway while accelerating.

[four winds]

richr, I think the basic idea involves getting the bow off the dock first, (push warp kedge whatever) such that even with leeway the boat is clear.


In my experience, a little rubbin' on the stern quarter is likely.