Sailing Zatara causing some Pacific ripples

[OloteleMtn]

Originally Posted by atoll

The world is still cleaning up the last biological mess Americans made in the pacific.

How is "the world" cleaning up the atomic testing residue in the Marshalls? Time alone can do that.....but it was Americans (mainly) who liberated the Pacific from the Japanese invaders, and ended the war by inventing the atomic bomb......what does this have to do with the crew of Zatara though......just another opportunity to bash Americans for you? Tell us where the bad man touched you.

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

What business is it of yours what Zatara does? You think you have any right to criticize their choices, body type, what country they want to stay in or leave, etc? Guess what....life is not safe, and you will not survive.

We have the RIGHT to criticize anyone we dam well please.

[Arthur Garfield]

rebuttal is doltish

No criticism just facts

Life is safe when making logical choices

Life is only unsafe when acting out-children often engage in this when guidance not present,nor education

[trimarannaga]

I dont watch the youtube videos but i do read the news and fiji is easing restrictions regarding yachts, likely the captain of Zatara knows this, and if they clear into fiji then he or she and the crew can film all over the place in that lovely little island nation. Legally.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Actually Texans are one of the most law abiding respectful of others rights demographics. And again, what law did the YouTubers break?

Problem is with this cough, fear has become a virtue, folks who arnt scared seem to not reaffirm the group identity of those who are, so even when the unafraid don’t even break the silly rules they still break the virtue of those who feel the need to change their lives for fear, if they makes sense.

I’m 1000% with with this.
Let people make their own choices, evolution wise outside from those who are already at their expiration the chance of death from this cough is VERY low, letting it run its natural course would be more akin to what you say, folks healthy enough to cruise might feel like poop for a week or two IF they got it and IF they even got sick enough to show symptoms, both BIG ifs.

Excellent idea. We'd just rather you stayed in Texas while you catch up, that's all.

[OloteleMtn]

American Samoa is open for US citizens and nationals only, for resupply only, at the moment; Hawaii or other US territory are other possible destinations for Zatara. Some of you seem to wish to impose your will on their choices, a rather totalitarian position to take. The virus has been politicized far beyond its capacity for harm, and is being used to cage your mind, body , and spirit.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield

rebuttal is doltish

No criticism just facts

Life is safe when making logical choices

Life is only unsafe when acting out-children often engage in this when guidance not present,nor education

You think life is safe?

”Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.”
-Helen Keller

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Excellent idea. We'd just rather you stayed in Texas while you catch up, that's all.

No thanks

I’m not scared, I’m not “sick” and I have stuff to do, suggestion noted but dismissed

[BlackHeron]

Mrs. Grundy is alive and well in the 21st. Century and here in the "cruising" community where it seems the vast majority of the people on this site aren't actually cruisers at all.

This uproar seems to me to be an exercise in Virtue-Signaling. But whatever. Pick your poison. We are hunkering down ourselves in place now because we don't have anywhere better to go at the moment that will look better if we get stuck there for months or even a year at worst case. But if we had a better place as a destination that had better long-term prospects than here we'd already be on our way too.

Actually we just spent the last few weeks jumping up from Beaufort SC to the Chesapeake. This is a compromise location. Far enough north to not be too brutal with heat and humidity in the summer, especially plugged into an affordable marina shorepower for AC, and fairly safe from Hurricanes. Any further North and I wouldn't want to overwinter If we got stuck there with any possible future US interstate travel bans. Hopefully we can sneak South a little ways once the 'cane season is over to where winters are leas harsh.

[Wallaby]

The last time I checked, Tonga is actually the Kingdom of Tonga, a constitutional monarchy that is a sovereign state . What this means is Tonga gets to make its own rules for all of its 169 +/- islands. If Tonga says it is closed to tourists, Tonga is closed. FULL STOP. Americans do not get to decide otherwise. Any discussion of Covid-19 is irrelevant.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

What business is it of yours what Zatara does? You think you have any right to criticize their choices, body type, what country they want to stay in or leave, etc? Guess what....life is not safe, and you will not survive.

It's my business when their poor behavior affects me and others down the road.


There is a reason why if you have a breakdown leaving the Galapagos you are treated with great suspicion by the Equadorian government and hassled repeatedly. It's because too many people lied and bent the rules to avoid the more expensive and onerous clearance procedures to get a longer stay on multiple islands there. The government caught on, and now if you have legit problem you are greeted with hostility and suspicion.


A great many annoying rules and laws are created in direct response to someone doing something they shouldn't have. So when a cruiser tries to smuggle food into NZ against the NZ biosecurity laws what does that mean for us? They get a fine, everyone else gets a much more detailed, time consuming inspection and more aggressive removal of food products when they come in.


Actions aren't without consequences. And border officials are not stupid.


Exploiting a technicality in a disputed territory during a global crisis seems like a dick move to me.



As a cruiser, I prefer to respect the laws, customs and mores of the countries which host me. I'm a guest, and no country has an obligation to take me. And I have exactly zero rights to barge in uninvited and demand special treatment.


Wintering in Whangarei was not my plan for this season, either. But we're sucking it up and toughing it out. This pandemic screwed up everyone's plans, worldwide. But I've not chosen to live in the limelight and support my cruising by getting an audience. I don't have that pressure to "get interesting things to film."



But that's a crappy excuse, if there's nothing interesting here than it's YOU that's the problem, not one of the coolest countries we've ever sailed to.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Mrs. Grundy is alive and well in the 21st. Century and here in the "cruising" community where it seems the vast majority of the people on this site aren't actually cruisers at all.

This uproar seems to me to be an exercise in Virtue-Signaling. But whatever. Pick your poison. We are hunkering down ourselves in place now because we don't have anywhere better to go at the moment that will look better if we get stuck there for months or even a year at worst case. But if we had a better place as a destination that had better long-term prospects than here we'd already be on our way too.

Actually we just spent the last few weeks jumping up from Beaufort SC to the Chesapeake. This is a compromise location. Far enough north to not be too brutal with heat and humidity in the summer, especially plugged into an affordable marina shorepower for AC, and fairly safe from Hurricanes. Any further North and I wouldn't want to overwinter If we got stuck there with any possible future US interstate travel bans. Hopefully we can sneak South a little ways once the 'cane season is over to where winters are leas harsh.

While you are indeed cruising, it is a different sort of cruising than when you get into changing countries. There are different issues moving between South and North Carolina versus between NZ and Fiji.

I'm in New Zealand at the moment, we left the U.S. in 2012. This particular Miss Grundy has issues with Zatara's actions because I've seen first hand how poor behavior by cruisers affects other cruisers.
You can certainly debate that their behavior was "legal" as they were intending to exploit a bit of diplomatic fuzziness to get their way. So yes, legal. As would have setting out for Fiji, if they dot all the I's and cross the T's the way Fiji wants you to. I hope for their sake they do that instead of just showing up.
But you can also debate how sensible or ethical it is heading to a country's waters (disputed or not) where they country has said explicitly "No, you are not welcome." And that's the crux of it, to me.
Zatara had been mouthing off a lot of bad ideas here in NZ before they left, and they were all fired to get out ASAP. They had one extra special ranting video that made the rounds that they had to delete, the pushback was so strong. Good riddance and good luck to them, they didn't like it here anyway, I guess. But among those of us who actually are here cruising, those ideas were very poorly received, for a reason.

[Tillsbury]

Are you in the town basin, evenstar? I was wandering around there the other day and there are certainly a few big boats in there looking like they're overwintering. There are certainly worse places to do it.

I got the feeling from the last few videos of zatara that they were getting to the stage where they expected everything to be done on their boat for nothing, and certainly the antifouling episode was quite unpleasant in this regard. Perhaps they ran out of willing participants in that idea.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Are you in the town basin, evenstar? I was wandering around there the other day and there are certainly a few big boats in there looking like they're overwintering. There are certainly worse places to do it.

I got the feeling from the last few videos of zatara that they were getting to the stage where they expected everything to be done on their boat for nothing, and certainly the antifouling episode was quite unpleasant in this regard. Perhaps they ran out of willing participants in that idea.

Yes, we're one of the many yachties clogging up the Town Basin this winter! From what I gather, it's usually pretty dead here in July.

[sanibel sailor]

Reminds me of the SSCA motto- "Leave a Clean Wake." Going where you have been specifically requested not to go does not leave a clean wake.

It takes willful disregard of facts to not consider Covid-19 a serious issue. No sensible person who works at the hospital and has first hand experience with it regards it as "the flu", "a cough", etc. In our little city of Ft Myers, we just had a healthy 17 year old girl die of this illness. Thought to have caught it at a church function. If you think this illness is not a big deal, go tell that to her parents. Our ICU's are near capacity again. How many ICU beds in Tonga? Anyone want to try one a stay there? Not me.

[paralog]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

It's my business when their poor behavior affects me and others down the road.


There is a reason why if you have a breakdown leaving the Galapagos you are treated with great suspicion by the Equadorian government and hassled repeatedly. It's because too many people lied and bent the rules to avoid the more expensive and onerous clearance procedures to get a longer stay on multiple islands there. The government caught on, and now if you have legit problem you are greeted with hostility and suspicion.


A great many annoying rules and laws are created in direct response to someone doing something they shouldn't have. So when a cruiser tries to smuggle food into NZ against the NZ biosecurity laws what does that mean for us? They get a fine, everyone else gets a much more detailed, time consuming inspection and more aggressive removal of food products when they come in.


Actions aren't without consequences. And border officials are not stupid.


Exploiting a technicality in a disputed territory during a global crisis seems like a dick move to me.



As a cruiser, I prefer to respect the laws, customs and mores of the countries which host me. I'm a guest, and no country has an obligation to take me. And I have exactly zero rights to barge in uninvited and demand special treatment.


Wintering in Whangarei was not my plan for this season, either. But we're sucking it up and toughing it out. This pandemic screwed up everyone's plans, worldwide. But I've not chosen to live in the limelight and support my cruising by getting an audience. I don't have that pressure to "get interesting things to film."



But that's a crappy excuse, if there's nothing interesting here than it's YOU that's the problem, not one of the coolest countries we've ever sailed to.

Well said