Sailing Zatara causing some Pacific ripples

[atoll]

Originally Posted by jstrru402

I wonder if all these America haters that are suddenly hard up on laws, who would find joy in Zatara being repatriated after having their boat confiscated because they illegally entered a country, would apply that same logic to the tens of millions of illegal aliens in the US...

already happening
https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=70156471

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by atoll

already happening
https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=70156471

uhhh, thats a interesting take on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ru8DMW-grY

[atoll]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

uhhh, thats a interesting take on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGjQqEG-FdQ

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Hmmm, A boatload of Texans you say? I think the Tongans will need a bigger navy

Remember the Alamo. They'll probably end up owning and running the place.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Remember the Alamo. They'll probably end up owning and running the place.

Or die?

I thought all the Texans were killed at the Alamo

[fxykty]

Minerva Reefs are a pair of sunken seamount reefs not quite 270nm southwest of Tongatapu, Tonga’s largest island and site of its capital, Nuku’alofa. They have been used by cruisers since satellite navigation started (and very rarely before that as there are no islands nor trees and are very difficult to see) as interesting pit stops between Tonga and NZ. They are a bit far east between Fiji and NZ and a bit far south for Tonga to Fiji. There’s never been any concern about just stopping there and certainly no customs procedure or notification required. They are part of the Tonga Ridge and Tonga does stretch almost 600nm north to south over 5 distinct island groups.

AKAIK SZ is not breaking any rules in stopping there. Leaving a country without declaring a destination is not illegal, though it can be considered by authorities to be indicative of smuggling or other nefarious activity. But for the country they’re leaving from it’s not that big a deal. It can be awkward showing your clearance from your previous country to a customs officer that doesn’t show the current country.

However, most countries require advance notice of arrival for sailing yachts and this is where SZ is acting in bad faith if not illegally. And in particular at this time when most countries have declared themselves to be closed to entry by non-citizens/residents. The reasons for t closure don’t matter, the fact of law is that they’re closed. If SZ have recently left NZ then they would have known that Fiji is open for yachts, though with conditions that it doesn’t look SZ took any notice of.

So SZ is at one of the Minerva Reefs. Now what? Fiji is the only country where they can go - all others are currently closed. What will they do for hurricane season? They won’t be allowed back into NZ and Australia won’t let them in either. Seems a bit silly for not wanting to put on socks or a sweater.

Both reefs have a single navigable entrance each on their respective northwest sides, providing entries into lagoons with up to 25m depth and barrier reefs that are barely above water level at high tide. The Northern reef is roughly circular and 3nm in diameter, while the Southern reef is a figure eight shape with its smaller lagoon in its eastern portion.

They’re relatively small and have a fragile ecosystem due to being so remote. I would hate to think what fishing and gray water and toilet waste from yachts spending extended time there would do to the lagoons.

The thing that bothers me most about SZ and their leaving NZ without a plan other than to be warm is that it reinforces local (island) peoples’ prejudices against wealthy and entitled cruisers who ignore the rules for their own benefit. French Polynesia is an example of what we don’t want to happen in other parts of the South Pacific.

And yes, when they were in NZ their YT videos showed that they regularly broke the lock down rules by going fishing in their dinghy and kite surfing - those activities were specifically against the level 4 and level 3 rules. We had nearly 7 weeks of no boating of any kind being allowed. Liveaboards could shelter in place, but not travel from place to place. And smaller communities did not appreciate outsiders sheltering in their place and putting additional load onto strained services and supplies due to the lock down.

This isn’t about their nationality nor even their YT success - it’s about a cruising boat that is showing itself to be unconcerned about following their host countries’ laws. How is that a positive message?

[Freedom45]

Numerous boats stop at Minerva every year without ever even contacting Tonga before hand and then continue on to other countries. Never been an issue.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Freedom45

Numerous boats stop at Minerva every year without ever even contacting Tonga before hand and then continue on to other countries. Never been an issue.

let me correct that for you

Numerous boats stop at Minerva every year , even contracting a corona virus before hand and then continue on to other countries. might be an issue.?

[OloteleMtn]

They left healthy, you think a fruit bat snuck on board after they left and gave em the Rona? Did you know that colds and flus are also in the coronavirus family? What do you think is detected in those tests they want everyone to have?

[Audeamus]

When NZ went into lockdown there was no ambiguity as to the requirement to stay put. Nobody knew who had the virus and restricting movement was one of the measures that has made NZ one of the few places in the world that eliminated it. The very fact that authorities had to even ask them to stay put (no doubt placing themselves at risk at the time) would have been looked at rather dimly by most kiwis. I don't avidly watch u tube videos but happened to see the one where they were sailing about one and decided I wouldn't watch any more so never saw the bit where they decided to stay put.
As mentioned kiwis did what was required and this whole post is about respect for customs and laws of the countries where we are guests. Often its not about what the "written" law is.
Its interesting these guys chose not to declare their next destination - wonder why that is.
BTW temperatures in Whangarei for June lowest 13 most days 15-17c - not that cold.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Minerva Reefs are a pair of sunken seamount reefs not quite 270nm southwest of Tongatapu, Tonga’s largest island and site of its capital, Nuku’alofa. They have been used by cruisers since satellite navigation started (and very rarely before that as there are no islands nor trees and are very difficult to see) as interesting pit stops between Tonga and NZ. They are a bit far east between Fiji and NZ and a bit far south for Tonga to Fiji. There’s never been any concern about just stopping there and certainly no customs procedure or notification required. They are part of the Tonga Ridge and Tonga does stretch almost 600nm north to south over 5 distinct island groups.

AKAIK SZ is not breaking any rules in stopping there. Leaving a country without declaring a destination is not illegal, though it can be considered by authorities to be indicative of smuggling or other nefarious activity. But for the country they’re leaving from it’s not that big a deal. It can be awkward showing your clearance from your previous country to a customs officer that doesn’t show the current country.

However, most countries require advance notice of arrival for sailing yachts and this is where SZ is acting in bad faith if not illegally. And in particular at this time when most countries have declared themselves to be closed to entry by non-citizens/residents. The reasons for t closure don’t matter, the fact of law is that they’re closed. If SZ have recently left NZ then they would have known that Fiji is open for yachts, though with conditions that it doesn’t look SZ took any notice of.

So SZ is at one of the Minerva Reefs. Now what? Fiji is the only country where they can go - all others are currently closed. What will they do for hurricane season? They won’t be allowed back into NZ and Australia won’t let them in either. Seems a bit silly for not wanting to put on socks or a sweater.

Both reefs have a single navigable entrance each on their respective northwest sides, providing entries into lagoons with up to 25m depth and barrier reefs that are barely above water level at high tide. The Northern reef is roughly circular and 3nm in diameter, while the Southern reef is a figure eight shape with its smaller lagoon in its eastern portion.

They’re relatively small and have a fragile ecosystem due to being so remote. I would hate to think what fishing and gray water and toilet waste from yachts spending extended time there would do to the lagoons.

The thing that bothers me most about SZ and their leaving NZ without a plan other than to be warm is that it reinforces local (island) peoples’ prejudices against wealthy and entitled cruisers who ignore the rules for their own benefit. French Polynesia is an example of what we don’t want to happen in other parts of the South Pacific.

And yes, when they were in NZ their YT videos showed that they regularly broke the lock down rules by going fishing in their dinghy and kite surfing - those activities were specifically against the level 4 and level 3 rules. We had nearly 7 weeks of no boating of any kind being allowed. Liveaboards could shelter in place, but not travel from place to place. And smaller communities did not appreciate outsiders sheltering in their place and putting additional load onto strained services and supplies due to the lock down.

This isn’t about their nationality nor even their YT success - it’s about a cruising boat that is showing itself to be unconcerned about following their host countries’ laws. How is that a positive message?

MMMM having read through this thread I finally came to a sensible answer , this one above. well done sir
No matter what we all think about covid, Americans , trump. etc, there are procedures to follow and rules and a pandemic . happening although I know some Americans are in denial . well us in the EU have seen over 200,000 deaths , and the excess death figures for the last 3 months are shocking , these are open statistical analysis by free governments . denial is futile
To the Vessel in Question , they knew the rules and protocols and etiquette , but decided to ignore them for their own selfish gain, and no doubt to make money on UTube. Sadly there will always be selfish and ignorant people in the world , I tend to ignore them and pish in their coffee when I Invite them aboard . small pleasures in life i'm afraid

[NorthernMac]

Just different cultures, and I thought Europe was all about embracing any culture, many Americans value freedom and have a very healthy distrust of government, historically its served them very well.

As far as NZ, I’d say the fact that they are a remote island nation in the middle of a ocean with a average age of 37 might have helped with viruses more than their draconian rules.

[Luckyknot]

So many of you are getting caught in the trap of legitimizing ignorance. You already know that nothing you say with break through the thick skulls of people like NorthernMac so please stop trying. All you are doing is allowing them to continue to repeat the same falsehoods and self centered ideals over and over again. This has the consequence of making their narrow minded, idiotic views repeat over and over in the world. Please just ignore them and move on. Nothing will help that kind of ignorance see the light. They attack the college educated, fighting for rights and freedom in the streets of America, while being attacked by police and the National Guard (among other "law enforcement" entities) by calling them ignorant and weak. It makes no sense but we allow them to keep speaking by trying to refute their claims. It's this kind of "any publicity is good publicity" that got captain Tang elected. If the world wants another 4 years of this then by all means, keep arguing with fools like him.

[OloteleMtn]

Originally Posted by Audeamus

BTW temperatures in Whangarei for June lowest 13 most days 15-17c - not that cold.

I was there in August and September of last year, and my wife and i were very uncomfortable due to the weather; when the average temperature year round where one lives is 80 plus, even 75 seems cold. 40s is in the hypothermic range. "Not that cold" will vary depending on whether one is a Hottentot or an Inuit...

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Luckyknot

So many of you are getting caught in the trap of legitimizing ignorance. You already know that nothing you say with break through the thick skulls of people like NorthernMac so please stop trying. All you are doing is allowing them to continue to repeat the same falsehoods and self centered ideals over and over again. This has the consequence of making their narrow minded, idiotic views repeat over and over in the world. Please just ignore them and move on. Nothing will help that kind of ignorance see the light. They attack the college educated, fighting for rights and freedom in the streets of America, while being attacked by police and the National Guard (among other "law enforcement" entities) by calling them ignorant and weak. It makes no sense but we allow them to keep speaking by trying to refute their claims. It's this kind of "any publicity is good publicity" that got captain Tang elected. If the world wants another 4 years of this then by all means, keep arguing with fools like him.

Location checks

I see lots of insults at me in there, but very light on the facts and supporting evidence to back any of it up.

So what rights do they not have?
You got 10 basic rights, just give me the numbers of the ones they don’t have

I’d be more than happy to take the Pepsi challenge on social station, education and experience level as well as how much I’ve given back to society in comparison to the average rioter.

No one “allows” me to keep speaking, as it’s my right, some might say the best solution to speech one doesn’t like is more speech, not forced silence.


The above seems to be the youtubers problem as well, all this hate because they spoke out that the draconian rules were silly, even though what everyone accused them of was proven false a few times, folks just regroup and try to find something else to crucify them over, it’s a odd world we are living in. Vilify a fellow sailor who worked hard to live the dream with his kids, but make saints out of looters and rioters, and all on a thread in a sailing group. Odd odd odd