Seeking input - solo sailors, sails, classic plastic

[Tinker]

Perhaps this is not the appropriate spot for this (I'm sure I'll be informed if I've misposted), but upon topic review, perhaps it is.

I'm the owner of a Rawson 30 which has been modified to include a modified pulpit/bowsprit that increases the 'J' dimension to 171".

Given that the Rawson with it's small rudder and large overlap was known for weather helm without a large genoa pulling her head around, many owners added bowsprits to move the CE forward. Mine is one of these.

I've gotten quotes for a 130-135% genoa and a 90-95% jib based on the new 'J' dimension, but I'm concerned that the 135% might be too much to handle for a single hander without roller reefing.
That of course is out of the budget and I respect and will adhere to the reliability of hank on sails with reefs and sailbags. Note: Synthetic rigging is underway and will replace 45 year old, 1/4" SST.

I'm not a small woman (6 foot or so), and have been a welder and fabricator for over thirty years, but that very statement identifies me as someone who's getting older, so I want to consider my sail choices very carefully.

Under the conditions stated, what sail choices would you make for sailing singlehanded on the West Coast of America, from Central America to the Bering Strait and possibly Hawaii; Hank on sails, 6 ton boat, limited sail budget.

I am particularly interested in those folks who have boats with heavy weather helm and how they handle large headsails singlehanded. Or, do you avoid the whole mess and go slower with a reefed main, and then, what do you do in light winds? Asymmetric, Code 0? Any scares with increasing winds with those sails?

This is a major purchase for me, so I'd like some input from those who've done it. Thanks in advance!

[Sailmonkey]

I would, as having done this evolution myself, save my money on extra headsail purchases. Buy one sail that will cover 90% of instances (it’ll be big) and buy a furler.

I know it’s not what you want to hear, but it’s night and day easy, encourages more sailing over motoring, etc…..

[SailFastTri]

Reefing a hank-on sail on a bowsprit without roller reefing is a bit sporty for a sailor of any age, and can be downright dangerous especially for a single hander. You sound like someone who’s well aware of your boat, the options, and your capabilities.
I’d go for the smaller headsail and reduce the mainsail area, and ease the traveler as needed to control weather helm. Maybe work with a sailmaker to recut the mainsail if that would help.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I would, as having done this evolution myself, save my money on extra headsail purchases. Buy one sail that will cover 90% of instances (it’ll be big) and buy a furler.

I know it’s not what you want to hear, but it’s night and day easy, encourages more sailing over motoring, etc…..

I can see the logic in this as I've skippered a bareboat Beneteau 45 and enjoyed the ease; what concerns do you have for furler failure at sea? And it's not a matter of what I want to hear, it's me asking for input, so all are welcome to provide it!
I am however concerned with the ability of a rolled foresail on my boat to provide the power needed to point in any weather. With some additional work and yard fees, I can complete an inner forestay install. Does that change the calculation?
I'm not a huge fan of going out on the foredeck in weather, but I'd rather deal with a hanked on sail with a downhaul than a jammed furler singlehanded. (Although I have no idea how often this happens.)
As I don't have much experience with furlers I tend to shy away from them as unreliable. Not much to go wrong with a soft shackle.
And please understand, I am not being critical of your recommendation, it's absolutely under consideration and I appreciate your response!

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Reefing a hank-on sail on a bowsprit without roller reefing is a bit sporty for a sailor of any age, and can be downright dangerous especially for a single hander. You sound like someone who’s well aware of your boat, the options, and your capabilities.
I’d go for the smaller headsail and reduce the mainsail area, and ease the traveler as needed to control weather helm. Maybe work with a sailmaker to recut the mainsail if that would help.

These were largely my thoughts; I've no love for the foredeck, especially in weather and perhaps I need to accept the 6 knot max from this boat. It is cruising afterall.
I've been leaning towards the 90% foresail and having a third reef added to the main. That would make short tacking in channels possible, but leaves me short of sail area in light winds. Perhaps that's the real question here, how to power up a heavy boat in light winds singlehanded without too much drama.

[El Pinguino]

Not familiar with your boat but I sail a similar range of latitudes to what you plan - Tierra del Fuego to Ecuador.
I would go for a furler - it is my belief that many of the furler failures we hear of occur when people wrap their spin halyard into the furling genoa.
I have two furling headsails - a genoa and a working jib. I choose which to use before the start of a passage - 95% of the time that means it is the working jib. Genoa only gets a run when I reckon the bulk of the trip will be off the wind.
If I could only have one headsail it would be the working jib.
Bear in mind that it is 'roller furling' we are talking of, not 'roller reefing' and after the first half dozen wraps most furling sails are worse than useless to windward as the c of e draws both higher and further forward.
I also have an inner forestay and an assortment of hanked on 'storm' jibs.

I can't imagine not having 3 reefs in the main and most of my sailing is done with at least one reef down.

[Don C L]

I can only say what I have, but I am not travelling as far afield. I have a genoa, a 130, which is my light/moderate wind, reaching and running sail. My working jib, a 100, is for upwind and off the wind in higher wind speeds. It is reefable, but it is not self tending. My sailmaker turned me on to this option some time ago so I would have a higher wind speed option for upwind without changing headsails. I have to go on the bow, bring the jib down, hank the new tack and draw the tack and clew together (not all the way) with a line just for that. I actually do not remove the jib sheets, I bring them up to the new clew and pull them through and (the clew cringle is big enough for that) and stop them with a figure eight knot there. (My sheets are long enough to accommodate this too.) If windspeeds are over what the reefed jib can handle, I'm going home. But really at that point you'd probably be dusting off the storm jib or doing something else. Now this works for my hank-on sails on my smaller boat, and is preferable to changing a headsail completely, BUT I will be the first to agree it can be a hassle on a wet and rolling foredeck. And I don't have a sprit to crawl out onto also. If you can swing a furler then I'd say that is better but I wouldn't rely on the furling headsail for light winds. I know that Rawson needs a little more power, but I think a good furling 120 or less will handle the majority of your needs, even reefed for going upwind (when furled down, with a good main.) A big genoa going upwind is not really going to improve her upwind performance. The Rawson is not a high powered upwind boat. For off the wind you could furl and then add more power with a reacher or gennaker kind of sail (do they still make those?) You can rig a line to pop the shackle on the tack from the cockpit and then pull it back under the boom to douse it. I have a reacher and a spinnaker, but I have yet to find them much better than my genoa off the wind, especially considering they can be a real hassle solo as you mention.
But really your local sailmaker will know your boat and be able to give you the best advice on combos.

I was just re-reading about your plan for the inner forestay and thinking, there is a Rawson two boats away from me and he has the fittings for the inner forestay, and the previous owner used it, and he sailed that boat all over the place. I think that is a good possibility for you to consider, a large genoa tacked out on the sprit and then when you reef the main the jib on the inner forestay will come into play with the center of effort remaining somewhat stationary.

I used to sail a Downeaster 38 that had a furling 120 and a self-tending hanked on staysail on an inner forestay. That was a good combo for that boat. I rarely used the staysail, since winds were often light unless I was reaching.

[Nekton73]

I sail a Grampian 30, solo, also a slow boat, heavy 'classic plastic'. It is a 'tall rig' with a shorter boom than the standard rig, so the CE is a fair bit higher, and I can certainly get some weather helm if I don't keep on top of reefing the main as the wind builds. I strongly second the other posts recommending to add a third reef to your main. I commissioned a new main the second year I had my boat and included a third reef, well worth the minor additional cost. When it comes time to use it you will be glad you have it, even if it's just once.



I have a furler and a (roughly) 110% jib that I cut down from the 130% that came with the boat. It does me fine until winds reach the high teens. After that it comes down and I hoist my working jib which is only 75% but still pulls plenty strong when there's enough wind to warrant using it. This is not easy to do with a furler though, and I'll often do it at the dock before setting out if I expect high winds. If caught out, I try to make the decision early and heave to while I do it. Hard work, but worth it.



As for your own headsail dilemma, I would go with a 100% jib if you stay with a wire forestay and hanks. I wouldn't bother with attempting to reef it; rather drop it and stow in a bag already prepared along one side of the deck and hoist a smaller jib (which you hopefully also have in a bag ready to go).



If you decide to upgrade to a furler then move up to 110%. You can count on reasonably good sail shape and performance upwind for the first few wraps (my experience anyway) with quickly diminishing returns each wrap after that.



As you are already contemplating an inner forestay (presumably at the original stemhead position of the stock forestay?) I think that would be a great backup for either scenario above, and will allow you to have a smaller sail ready to go well before it is needed. If you stow it in a turtle bag already hanked on and sheets ready, then very little time spent forward to prep and hoist it.



Good luck whatever you decide. I'm excited for you as you take on this challenge and adventure!

[El Pinguino]

More detail on my setup.
I hank two jibs onto my inner forestay one above the other. The lower one is secured by marling hitching it. The top one is ready to go.
In the pic you can see - on the inner forestay - a 150 sq ft storm jib over a 100 or maybe a 50 sq ft one.
To shorten sail I drop the working one and marling hitch it to secure it.Then I just unhank and rehank the lower one up into the top position. Transfer the sheets from one to other , change the tack over, change the halyard over , and then hoist.
Both sails under full control all the time.

A good case can be made for taking the halyard back to the cockpit so you have control of both halyard and sheets when hoisting.

[Don C L]

Pondering sticking with hank-on: I wonder how the Rawson would do with a Yankee, after it is too windy for the big genoa? That big main needs something out there to balance it. It wouldn't be too bad to bring a big genoa down in about 15 kts probably and then switch to a Yankee + staysail cutter rig. Then if things pipe up you are reefing the main and dropping the Yankee.

Also, I recall in the old days (60s and 70s) some cruisers had twin headstays to keep two different sized headsails ready. Maybe that set-up for you?
Check this thread:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ys-162391.html

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tinker

I can see the logic in this as I've skippered a bareboat Beneteau 45 and enjoyed the ease; what concerns do you have for furler failure at sea? And it's not a matter of what I want to hear, it's me asking for input, so all are welcome to provide it!

I am however concerned with the ability of a rolled foresail on my boat to provide the power needed to point in any weather. With some additional work and yard fees, I can complete an inner forestay install. Does that change the calculation?

I'm not a huge fan of going out on the foredeck in weather, but I'd rather deal with a hanked on sail with a downhaul than a jammed furler singlehanded. (Although I have no idea how often this happens.)

As I don't have much experience with furlers I tend to shy away from them as unreliable. Not much to go wrong with a soft shackle.

And please understand, I am not being critical of your recommendation, it's absolutely under consideration and I appreciate your response!

Our last boat had an older Schaffer, that once I got the furling line routing correct, never gave a bit of trouble. Regarding pointing, you’ll lose some ability to point, but at the elevated wind speeds you’ll be reefed in velocity makes up for some of the lack of ability to point. Also typically as the wind comes up so do the waves , so you’ll need to near off a touch anyway to keep making headway.

[davil]

I'm not a huge fan of going out on the foredeck in weather, but I'd rather deal with a hanked on sail with a downhaul than a jammed furler singlehanded. (Although I have no idea how often this happens.)
As I don't have much experience with furlers I tend to shy away from them as unreliable. Not much to go wrong with a soft shackle.
And please understand, I am not being critical of your recommendation, it's absolutely under consideration and I appreciate your response![/QUOTE]

=================================
I single hand.
the reliability issues we discussed late 90's and believe they have sort themselves out by now.

Installed my first Schaefer, 1997?, by myself in my Tartan 34 ,at the time was in Ventura Ca, did it by myself, took me about 2 days to secure the mast using a halyard tied to the pulpit, went aloft using webbing steps to bring the forestay down for measuring and resize, use Stalocks (came with the kit) to replace both ends fittings.

Assembled the extrusions to correct size of new forestay, followed the printed instructions, no YouTube then!!!
When it was ready to hoist, hunted down an "unsuspected" bystander to keep the furler straight as I was pulling up the contraption.
Secured and returned down to the deck.

Cruised for almost 5 years from California, to the San Blas islands and returned
Survived Hurricane Lenny, off the coast of Honduras, never a problem.
Did not order a new sail, used old one (not in good shape but could not afford a new one, have a sail loft replace those hanks for a tape)

Now 20 years later solo sailing replaced the old system in my Cape Dory with a new Harken, professionally installed (not longer physically fit), lovely, also installed a behind the mast roller furling, both roller furling systems added sailing time to my geriatric status, could not do otherwise.

True, performance suffers, balance that with safety and ability to sail under most conditions, last 4 years 2 gales and a tropical storm.

Failures resulting on system lacked/jammed/stuck!!!

I know of two instances.

Installer error. dreaded halyard wrapped
https://theyachtrigger.com/halyard-w...ention-repair/

Sailor error.

not proper tension on the furling line when rolling the sail in, the line overrides inside the cylinder, big dodo.

My experience.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Perhaps this is not the appropriate spot for this (I'm sure I'll be informed if I've misposted), but upon topic review, perhaps it is.



I'm the owner of a Rawson 30 which has been modified to include a modified pulpit/bowsprit that increases the 'J' dimension to 171".



Given that the Rawson with it's small rudder and large overlap was known for weather helm without a large genoa pulling her head around, many owners added bowsprits to move the CE forward. Mine is one of these.



I've gotten quotes for a 130-135% genoa and a 90-95% jib based on the new 'J' dimension, but I'm concerned that the 135% might be too much to handle for a single hander without roller reefing.

That of course is out of the budget and I respect and will adhere to the reliability of hank on sails with reefs and sailbags. Note: Synthetic rigging is underway and will replace 45 year old, 1/4" SST.



I'm not a small woman (6 foot or so), and have been a welder and fabricator for over thirty years, but that very statement identifies me as someone who's getting older, so I want to consider my sail choices very carefully.



Under the conditions stated, what sail choices would you make for sailing singlehanded on the West Coast of America, from Central America to the Bering Strait and possibly Hawaii; Hank on sails, 6 ton boat, limited sail budget.



I am particularly interested in those folks who have boats with heavy weather helm and how they handle large headsails singlehanded. Or, do you avoid the whole mess and go slower with a reefed main, and then, what do you do in light winds? Asymmetric, Code 0? Any scares with increasing winds with those sails?



This is a major purchase for me, so I'd like some input from those who've done it. Thanks in advance!

I would add the bowsprit and use a 130% Yankee hank-on on it.
I would add a removable forestay for a Self-tending hank-on staysail.
I would get the largest drifter possible.
I would have 3 reef points in the main.

Foresail progression starting in lightest conditions would be:
A. Drifter.
B. Yankee & staysail
C. Yankee
D. Staysail.

You have a heavy boat with a relatively short mast.
You really need the bowsprit to increase foresail area and you need a really big nylon headsail or you will be motoring a lot, ie spending money on fuel.

CodeZero would provide somewhat better light air performance except upwind where drifter is better but it would cost somewhere around twice as much as a drifter.

If you put a reef point in the Yankee there would be an additional step of reefed Yankee at C.5.

I would buy the SailRite kits and make storage bags for Yankee and staysail that stay attached to their respective stays so the only sail that stores below would be the drifter except in heavy air when Yankee is also brought below. On a small vessel storage space is a significant issue.

[Tinker]

Thank you all!

To address a couple of questions in the replies:
The inner stay on my boat would be roughly halfway back from the forestay at the end of the bowsprit and the mast, not at the stemhead. The PO placed a hardwood beam under the deck there which is adjacent to the 1" glassed in knees. It's also on a straight line from the masthead to the back of the bow ring where the bobstay would attach, making it easy to tie all the way through to the prow.
This would make the boat a 'slutter' of sorts as the forestays would not be parallel and the inner would be much further back than a Solent.
Given that geometry, I think I'm favoring the Yankee/staysail/Code solution as I have multiple attachment points for flying sails and I'll save my pennies for a furler in a few years.

Thanks again for all the input! It was really valuable for me.