Single handing modern boats

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The boats I sailed single handing did not turn that fast that one could spin the wheel then slip around into the cockpit and work the sheets then back behind the wheel to set the new course then back again to adjust the genoa sheet.

I tend to the opinion that single handers don't get involved in tacking duals though.

Depending on where everything is you don’t need to move much

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by thinwater

If you are going to single hand, get the wheel pilot.

Not a wind vane. Yes, there is an elegance, like using a sextant, but they're obsolete. I've used them, and they really don't steer well at all by comparison.

I agree that an electro-mechanical autopilot is important. Especially if you are harbor or island hopping, or other short distance sailing.

However, suggesting that wind vanes are obsolete is about as ridiculous as suggesting that everyone should switch to autonomous automobiles.

When your 10 - 20 days in a passage...you learn to love a wind vane almost as much as a child or significant other. In fact, at times it is like they have their own personality because unlike a electro-mechanical AP, a wind vane will tell you when your sails are not trimmed correctly. Balance your boat and a wind vane works just as well as an AP.

IMHO, many people who complain about wind vanes are a) those who have never used them on long crossings (10+ days as sea), and b) those who don’t know how to trim sails and balance a boat properly.

But for sailing in the Chesapeake, down the ICW, near coastal, or island hopping...an AP is the better investment and helps tremendously when single-handing, or short crew.

[Howler]

Couple of thoughts...

As you point out, jib sheets aren't a problem as they're near your helm. So the issue is the main sail.

When tacking, the mainsail is in effect "self-tacking", and I just let it come over. There's only a minimal distance for the boom to travel when going from close haul to close haul.

Jibing is another matter. I set a straight course with autopilot (or clamp down the wheel) before the jibe and go forward to the mainsheet to haul it in so the boom is near center. This is a good practice in any case because if you ever loose control during a jibe, prevents the boom from swinging wildly from one one side and slamming over to the other. Then when you jibe, the boom can be left to its own as it can only move a small amount, kind of like on a tack. Then once on your new heading I set a straight with autopilot (or clamp down the wheel), and go forward to ease out the mainsheet.

Another option is to rig a German system (see picture attached), which brings your mainsheet back to the primary winches on both sides, allowing it to be controlled from the helm. I actually had this for a while, and eventually abandoned it for a more traditional rooftop mainsheet. There was too much line clutter around the primary winches and helm. And unless you have two primary winches on each side, you have to remove the mainsheet from the winch every time you tack.

[thinwater]

I was quite certain several would spring to defend the wind vane. I notice that all of the responses were qualified with "adequate", "balance" and other caveats.


The OP did say "modern." I offer that many modern boats sail better when unbalanced by vane standards. The rudder may like more load, the mainsail roach is probably larger, and if the boat is faster, the AW changes faster. In fact, steering any fast boat off the wind in waves using the AW setting is asking for trouble; it changes too quickly surfing off waves. You are better with the compass setting, which a vane does not have. You wouldn't see a vane on a race boat, would you?


Power consumption? With solar and improved batteries this is an obsolete issue.



They get in the way of davits.


I'm an old-time sailor, from before GPS and all that. But I can change. A vane can work, but an AP works better and does more things for less money.

[Ardbeg]

I sail alone a lot on Lake Ontario. i could not get by without my silent crew, auto helm!

[Knotical]

The setup on my Sabre 34-2 is very similar to yours, a huge wheel at the aft, 2 primary winches on the coamings (in front of the wheel) and mainsheet on cabin top.

I usually tack/jibe from the front of the wheel (as couple of posters already suggested).

This is my sequence:
-Lock the wheel on a straight course
-Get in front of the wheel
-Center traveler
-Make couple of turns on the lazy sheet winch (the new working sheet), I usually keep a loose hold on it
-Open wheel lock and turn through the wind, I then let go of the wheel
-I let the back-winded genoa push the bow through the wind, then quickly release the sheet and start pulling in the new working sheet and lock it
-I continue to bear off a little to gain speed, then adjust the wheel again
-Trim the genoa for the new course, take slack off the new lazy sheet and adjust traveler
-Go stand behind the wheel

It took me 4 or 5 tries but now I can smoothly tack in less than a minute, proud to say I can tack better myself than with help (wife and kids are still learning). For jibing I pull in the mainsheet once I go in front of the wheel.

Even if I bring the primary winches aft and somehow bring the mainsheet closer to helm I don't think I will be able to control the sheets from behind the wheel because the wheel is so HUGE, I am fine with things as they are.

[thinwater]

The knack to everything singlehanded is to methodically break it down into steps that do not require rushing or doing two things at the same time. This is the physical difference between crewed and singlehanded sailing.

Do things early. Prepare for reefing or raising sail.

If several things must happen at the same time (tacking, jibing, anchoring), understand the exact sequence and refine the technique until there are no tangles or hang-ups.

It's not hard, it just required you to slow down and think about things differently. One thing at a time, and understand each movement. It is different from trying to do what three crewmen would do. You will do it differently.

[fred4936]

Many thanks to all that responded! I will definitely practice that! It did not occur to me to stand in front of the wheel. An autopilot is on the list, and I would like a windvane if I go offshore. I agree with the people pitting autopliot vs. windvane about the pro's and cons of each. I will be sailing with my wife most of the time, but we both must be able to singlehand this boat if and when the need arises. So i mat have to stock up on PB & J, and move up the autopilot, but will definitely practice handling things in front of the wheel, since electrical things like to fail at really bad times!

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I was quite certain several would spring to defend the wind vane. I notice that all of the responses were qualified with "adequate", "balance" and other caveats.


The OP did say "modern." I offer that many modern boats sail better when unbalanced by vane standards. The rudder may like more load, the mainsail roach is probably larger, and if the boat is faster, the AW changes faster. In fact, steering any fast boat off the wind in waves using the AW setting is asking for trouble; it changes too quickly surfing off waves. You are better with the compass setting, which a vane does not have. You wouldn't see a vane on a race boat, would you?
.

I grew up on the upper Chesapeake in the 60’s, so I suspect you and I cut our teeth in the same body of water.

I’ve raced J boats in PNW for a few years, and AW & speed is constantly being monitored, as is SOG and STW by the helmsman and tactician and/or skipper

In short races (less than 2days like the Swiftsure) someone is at the helm 24/7 (usually in 2 - 3 hour shifts) and nobody would even consider using an AP if there is one, and many skippers don’t even consider installing an AP. Of course, you don’t see ovens or water makers on most race boats either, and I’ve crewed on some boats where the owner removed the porcelain head and all anchors to reduce weight during racing season.

In longer races such as Vic-Maui there are boats with AP and some with windvanes, but the helm is also manned 24/7. In the Vendee single handed race, and the GGR windvanes are primary steering gear. So, to answer your question, yes we often see wind vanes on long distance racers, but would never see them on short course race boats.

Any rudder that has “load” (more pressure on one side) is generating resistance through the water resulting in drag. Sail trim and learning to balance a boat is a skill.

For the OP, an AP is a great investment for your initial plans. For longer term plans of offshore cruising, a back up AP or wind vane would be wise. As you say that it will primarily be you and your wife...consider that a large portion of the time offshore you will essentially be “single-handing” as one is sleeping while the other on watch.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by fred4936

I have thought about the German mainsheet system, but am resisting that for the same reason. We saw European boats with that style mainsheet at Newport last year, along with other controls being double ended and brought back to both sides.

The German system, at least as implemented on boat show boats, is unworkable at best and more likely downright dangerous! My concerns:

First, the temptation to keep the mainsheet stopped off on both sides is high (human nature is lazy -- after a tack, you don't move the main sheet back onto the weather winch). In a gust or if you need to suddenly bear off (say, ducking a boat), you can't dump the main. Dangerous!


But even simple evolutions. To tack, you lock the main off on both sides, then tack the boat, then reset the mainsheet on the weather winch. Really?


A gybe boggles the mind. Properly executed, you put both jib sheets on winches, easing the old sheet as you pull in on the new sheet. As you start down toward the gybe, you aggressively sheet in the main toward or at centerline, and as the main flops across, you dump it almost completely, reducing the impact load and getting it back to proper trim. With German system, you sheet the main to centerline, lock it off on both sides, execute they gybe (using the two winches for the jib), then load up the main on the lazy winch and ease it out. Wow.


The German system, at least on boat show boats, is clearly a cost saving approach that relies heavily on the fact that their target audience doesn't actually sail.


However, if the main sheet came back to a pair of dedicated winches, then it's probably pretty nice. Except for the friction and challenges of executing it cleanly.

[xtream]

I shorthanded a 32' and now my 40', both aft cockpits with winches located between the wheel and the cabin. The most cost-effective solution is to add a raymarine wheel pilot that you can install yourself. You don't need a below deck steering drive on your boat, but you can always add one later to the system if you want.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

The German system, at least as implemented on boat show boats, is unworkable at best and more likely downright dangerous! My concerns:

First, the temptation to keep the mainsheet stopped off on both sides is high (human nature is lazy -- after a tack, you don't move the main sheet back onto the weather winch). In a gust or if you need to suddenly bear off (say, ducking a boat), you can't dump the main. Dangerous!


But even simple evolutions. To tack, you lock the main off on both sides, then tack the boat, then reset the mainsheet on the weather winch. Really?


A gybe boggles the mind. Properly executed, you put both jib sheets on winches, easing the old sheet as you pull in on the new sheet. As you start down toward the gybe, you aggressively sheet in the main toward or at centerline, and as the main flops across, you dump it almost completely, reducing the impact load and getting it back to proper trim. With German system, you sheet the main to centerline, lock it off on both sides, execute they gybe (using the two winches for the jib), then load up the main on the lazy winch and ease it out. Wow.


The German system, at least on boat show boats, is clearly a cost saving approach that relies heavily on the fact that their target audience doesn't actually sail.


However, if the main sheet came back to a pair of dedicated winches, then it's probably pretty nice. Except for the friction and challenges of executing it cleanly.

Well, all I can say is that I love my German system! I have absolutely NO trouble moving the mainsheet to the windward side, and I have an express rule that a line that is on a winch is never locked off. Nothing could be easier. And, when gybing, I simply gybe the main first, lock the mainsheet off, gybe the jib, which is backed but still provides drive, then put the mainsheet back on the new windward winch. !,2,3!

[Oohla]

Great posts.
I single hand a 42 foot slutter.
I spend a lot of time in front of the wheel. When tacking I don't lock the wheel, I set the AP from a neck lanyard.
And, I added another set of winches - electric - To haul in the jib sheets as quickly as possible. I got Harkens, but if I did it again I would get Maxwell Vertical Capstans. Cheaper.
I wish I had a Hydrovane.

[fred4936]

All good plans! Thank you all! Some sort of autopilot will have to be on the list. But for now I will try doing things from in front of the wheel. Thanks again for all the great answers!

[gonesail]

i agree many cockpit winches are too far forward .. like on my boat .. maybe to be handled by crew? but the autopilot would be very helpful