Tacking in light winds?

[Canopus]

Just looking for comments or suggestions...

I'm a novice and took a Catalina 25 out for a sail in fairly light winds - probably about 5 knots. I found that after about an hour of tacking back and forth, I had barely made any progress upwind.

Is this typical?

For this kind of boat in these conditions?

A reflection of my pitiful skills?

[Stu Jackson]

What size jib? Sometimes jibs larger than a 110 are not necessarily better for lighter air. How did you use the traveler? I owned my C25 for 11 years. Since I sailed on SF Bay I rarely had 5 kt winds.

[wholybee]

Was there any current? In only 5kts, your progress upwind will be slow. With any current at all, you could be making no progress at all. At times, I have tacked back and forth for hours, and wound up going backwards.

[riksf]

It's tough in those conditions. You've gotta eke every tenth of a degree of pointing and tenth of a knot of speed you can out of your boat and rig. As Stu said, where's your traveler? Your vang? Your outhaul? Is your crew sitting on the leeward rail to give you a bit more heel? Are you pointing exactly as high as you can without ever pinching, because if you pinch, there goes your speed. And so on. Light air sailing is more exhausting than the other extreme imo.

[Canopus]

Lake sailing - no current.

Thanks for the replies - they sound reasonable.

I think my expectations were overheated, probably because so many tacking diagrams show boats following plus or minus 45 degree tracks relative to the wind. Perhaps too many of these are used without realistic advice?

[wingssail]

Catalina 25, 5 knots of wind, novice sailor?

It's not shocking that you didn't make much headway upwind.

The Catalina is a nice boat, not a high performance boat but nice. To go upwind in 5 knots of breeze you need big sails, sheeted in close, and some skill at driving it.

Lacking any one of those will keep you from going really fast upwind.

Don't be discouraged, sailing skills are not obtained overnight, but they are worth acquiring. Take your time and keep at it.

Remember, very light air: big sails, sheeted in but not too far, and skillful driving. You'll get there and when you do it will feel great.

[Canopus]

I've been giving this tacking question a little more thought and think I understand what's going on...

A close haul tack is 45 deg relative to the apparent wind.

The apparent wind is itself a certain angle ('A') relative to the true wind.

This means, when on a close haul tack, the course is 45+A relative to the wind.

This is true for both tacks, which means the angle between two consecutive tacks is 90+2A

If 'A' is small (such as when the boat is much slower than the wind,) there is about 90 degrees of a course change between tacks.

However, if A is large, such as when the boat and wind have comparable speeds, then the 90+2A might be close to 180 degrees. In this case, tacking back and forth produces a course across the wind with relatively little gain into the wind.

This now explains to my satisfaction why trying to turn the boat by 90 degrees failed to get me close hauled on the next tack leg.

I've attached a sketch outlining the argument - hope this helps others who struggled with this puzzle.

[Yojimbo]

Cannapus-
I am a novice as well so take this as you will. Close hauled is the highest point you can sail. Bring the boat up, when the sails start to luff fall of 2-3 degrees, the sails will stop luffing, you are on your highest point of sail.

In light winds consider putting your traveler all the way over to windward and easing your main sheet a little at a time- the point being to create as much draft [depth] of sail/power as you can.

Play with the jib sheets to try and get the tell tails streaming both inside and out side the jib. It may be necessary to move the jib sheet cars forward to allow for a more full jib which could provide more power.

When in doubt let it out.

5 knots is a light breeze and a challenge to sail will but not a bad entry point for those of us learning the ropes.

Sorry, I meant sheets. Have fun.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Canopus

I've been giving this tacking question a little more thought and think I understand what's going on...

A close haul tack is 45 deg relative to the apparent wind.

The apparent wind is itself a certain angle ('A') relative to the true wind.

This means, when on a close haul tack, the course is 45+A relative to the wind.

This is true for both tacks, which means the angle between two consecutive tacks is 90+2A

If 'A' is small (such as when the boat is much slower than the wind,) there is about 90 degrees of a course change between tacks.

However, if A is large, such as when the boat and wind have comparable speeds, then the 90+2A might be close to 180 degrees. In this case, tacking back and forth produces a course across the wind with relatively little gain into the wind.

This now explains to my satisfaction why trying to turn the boat by 90 degrees failed to get me close hauled on the next tack leg.

I've attached a sketch outlining the argument - hope this helps others who struggled with this puzzle.

I think you have your vectors mislabeled in your sketch. On a close hauled course a good boat well trimmed will sail to about 45 degrees to the true wind giving apparent wind of somewhere around 30 degrees.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by danstanford

I think you have your vectors mislabeled in your sketch. On a close hauled course a good boat well trimmed will sail to about 45 degrees to the true wind giving apparent wind of somewhere around 30 degrees.

If you can hold your apparent wind angle and widen the angle between your true and apparent (increase your 45°) you will be making better velocity made good.

[Dockhead]

You're leaving out leeway, and difference between true and apparent wind - there are a few more vectors.

Another important factor is optimum VMG to windward, which does not occur at the closest possible angle to the wind. VMG to windward is the direct measure of your success in getting up to windward, not indeed any angle.

90 degrees over ground, the angle between COG on one tack to COG on the other, so taking account of all the vectors, and at optimal VMG to windward (i.e. not pinching) is just about as good as it gets with a really good sailing boat sailed really well in ideal conditions. 100 degrees is already really good. 120 may be all you can get in an average boat in less than ideal conditions, or even more. I am assuming zero currents; a tide running greatly comicates this.

Since you are sailing in waters without currents, I would suggest cracking this with your instruments. You should be able to get them to read VMG to windward. If not, you can set a waypoint directly upwind and look at VMG to that. Play around and find that angle and that sail trim which gives you the highest reading.

Speed is your friend going upwind - all other things being equal, the faster you go, the less leeway. Sail on a close reach, trim well, and check your speed. Then head up gradually, trim the sails, and stop heading up before the speed falls off dramatically. That should be somewhere not too far from your best VMG.

Sail trim - and sails with good shape - are key to getting upwind. That is because upwind, your sails are acting purely in lift mode - so available power is the sum of lift minus drag, so you have to be able to trim to minimize drag. Baggy sails will kill your upwind ability.

Good luck! Sailing upwind is hard but fun - really separates the sailor-men from the sailor-boys.

[catsketcher]

When I coach or take new crew out I tell them of the four gears of sailing upwind.

1st gear Go gear - you sheet the sails so that they are curved on the foot and leech. The leech telltales on the main are streaming. You sail upwind with the leeward jib telltale almost breaking. You are very light in the boat, heeling it a little. Weight forward, gentle on the tiller.

Then the wind comes in to about 8 knots

2nd gear - speed gear- the sails come in harder. Still a little curve in both foot and leech. The mains leech telltale is streaming only half the time (ease it till it flows and then pull it on a bit). You steer to get both jib telltakes streaming. Point the boat up a little.

3rd gear - pointing gear - 12-15 knots. You pull the sails on tight. Traveller starts moving down the track to keep the boat on its feet. The windward jib telltale is lifting a little. The main luff is luffing slightly. Yoy are heading the boat up to keep it on its feet.

4th gear - depower gear - 15-16 plus. The traveller is down more and the main luff is flapping for about 1/3 of the way back. The jib foot is tight and flat with the lead back a little to ease the leech. Main sheet on hard but traveller down. Windward jib telltale whirling around and the front 1/4 of the jib luffing too. Just keeping the boat on its feet.

New sailors tend to forget that they must get to 2nd gear by first goingthrough 1st, just as in a car. So get the boat breathing, look up at the rig and ask the sails what they want by learning about telltales (the leech telltale on the main, 1/4 way down is your best friend on the main - the jib telltales 1/4 way up the luff are besties on the jib). Once the boat is moving you can squeeze, ever so gently and start pointing, but if you slow down, go back to 1st gear and start again.

When I raced I have often had people ask me how I was fast. The answer was always the same, listen to the boat, never tell it what to do, ask it what it wants and change gears, every gust and every lull in an inshore dinghy race or day race offshore. So read some more, learn about telltales and ask the boat.

And throw away the instruments. I have seen lots of bad sailing because of instruments - look at the sails not at dials, look at the water and the wind coming towards you. Instruments are fine for use at night and for long distance sailing, once you have learnt the feel of the boat, a long, long longtime after.

[thomm225]

Sounds like you are totally over thinking something as simple as tacking a sailboat.

Just practicing in most all conditions will teach you all you need to know.

Racing helps because sometimes in the prerace you might tack and/or gybe dozens of times just trying to gain a good position on the favored side of the line.

If you have 4-5 races per day, that's a lot of tacks. (not counting the ones you do during the race)

This is why learning sailing on a small boat is the way to go if you want to master sailing.

Sometimes in racing you have to tack away in 5 knots or less with boats very close to you on either side.....

[leecea]

A close haul tack is 45 deg relative to the apparent wind.

Maybe this is your problem.

Did you see the post by danstanford?:

On a close hauled course a good boat well trimmed will sail to about 45 degrees to the true wind giving apparent wind of somewhere around 30 degrees.

Did you try pointing higher than 45 deg?

[danstanford]

https://www.sailbetter.com/apparent-wind/

This covers the concepts pretty well. Perhaps I should have been more clear by saying that the angles I am referring to are relative to the boat not to the destination up wind.

Hopefully that helps but if not please ask questions here or by messaging me.

Dan