Tweed Heads, Australia bar

[Dsanduril]

Their blog doesn't have anything yet, but perhaps once their stomachs have settled and their beds have dried they'll provide a little information.

FWIW, it would appear they are/should be pretty familiar with Australian conditions:

[skipperpete]

In early april a very experienced mariner lost his life here on the Ballina bar ( richmond river). The conditions were very good and he had waited for the flood but a rogue wave caused his boat to surf and broach throwing him overboard. It seems that two waves rose up on a quite manageable sea, the first caused the broach and the second which broke and swept in as white water. A very sad loss of a competent Hobart winner with “Astor” and a respected professional mariner.

[JPA Cate]

The Ballina Bar deserves a whole thread to itself.

I actually feel pretty sure the waves at the Tweed were worse than what GILow experienced attempting to exit the Tamar and turning back. Having met him, I think he'd have had better sense than to attempt what faced the "Begonia."

Am curious as to how power was lost. It's easy to see how rudder damage could have occurred. Am also curious about their not having a sail up. Cats are so stable, I can see why people might not, but we have always had sails up for bar crossings, even if we're motor sailing, and it is exactly because if your motor quits, what on earth do you do for motive power? It is in the same category as not motoring along a lee shore with the mainsail cover on. The motor may never quit, but is it a sensible risk to take?

Ann

[44'cruisingcat]

Beats me why you'd try to go out. I can understand someone wanting to get in, but going out in thise conditions?

And they usually only last a few days, why not wait? Tweed Heads is safe and comfortable, easy to get supplies....

Also, where were they going? Either direction they're facing bar crossings...

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Am curious as to how power was lost. It's easy to see how rudder damage could have occurred. Am also curious about their not having a sail up. Cats are so stable, I can see why people might not, but we have always had sails up for bar crossings, even if we're motor sailing, and it is exactly because if your motor quits, what on earth do you do for motive power? It is in the same category as not motoring along a lee shore with the mainsail cover on. The motor may never quit, but is it a sensible risk to take?

Ann

I've always found that engines fail right when you need them most.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

The Ballina Bar deserves a whole thread to itself.

I actually feel pretty sure the waves at the Tweed were worse than what GILow experienced attempting to exit the Tamar and turning back. Having met him, I think he'd have had better sense than to attempt what faced the "Begonia."

Am curious as to how power was lost. It's easy to see how rudder damage could have occurred. Am also curious about their not having a sail up. Cats are so stable, I can see why people might not, but we have always had sails up for bar crossings, even if we're motor sailing, and it is exactly because if your motor quits, what on earth do you do for motive power? It is in the same category as not motoring along a lee shore with the mainsail cover on. The motor may never quit, but is it a sensible risk to take?

Ann

the FP has engine access hatches on the sterns. just wondering if being thrown around so badly allowed water to enter the engine bays and electrical problem ?

personally, we rarely have sails up when crossing a bar. they affect visibility and i also worry about breaking waves catching in the sails. if needed we can roll things out pretty quickly. but that is just me...sure others prefer otherwise

cheers,

[JPA Cate]

Having the main up for a mono adds stability, one rolls less.

Ann

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

I've always found that engines fail right when you need them most.

Maintenance.
Dilligence

Having been a sailor for many years I "could" say the same about sail cloth, rigs and fittings.
But the same two words apply.

[Gypsy23]

Originally Posted by GILow

It sounded more like they lost power after being driven backwards.

They had no sails up, so they had to have had engines to get out there.

In the CH7 TV interview the skipper said he lost the stb eng and couldn't steer to port because of ropes tangled in both.

Good work by him to stay in the centre lane as he got washed back to the river. Once inside, they dropped their anchor until Marine Rescue came to tow them back up river.
Very lucky escape.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Gypsy23

In the CH7 TV interview the skipper said he lost the stb eng and couldn't steer to port because of ropes tangled in both.

Good work by him to stay in the centre lane as he got washed back to the river. Once inside, they dropped their anchor until Marine Rescue came to tow them back up river.
Very lucky escape.

yep : ropes washed overboard. makes sense n i should have thought of that

as you say : good work in the circumstances

cheers

[philcun50]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Don't really know why he didn't turn back after looking at the bar, with it looking like that.....

Ann

That’s the problem with the NSW river ports like Port Macquarie, Yamba, etc, you really can’t turn back once you get a good look at it. If tide is running out the last thing you want to be is broadside to it especially in a cat. Much more prudent to observe from the shore and check weather forecast. I’ve been in and out these places lots and they scare me. With max speed of about 8 knots there ain’t much I can do other than just go for it.
Coming from Lake Macquarie which is an easy bar compared to these river ports I find ones like Wide Bay Bar ever so much more easy to negotiate.

[arsenelupiga]

takeaway for me is - secure ropes, i mean really secure so they cannot get loose in severe wind&seas. Heard more than once ropes in propellers caused disaster.

[JPA Cate]

Here's a link to the webcam at Lake Macquarie. It'll get you into the system. https://roads-waterways.transport.ns...macquarie.html

To me, at Narooma, the entry is so narrow because of the sandbars that in some cases you wouldn't be able to turn around before getting into the surf--and for us, it is rather shallow-- but this is not true of most of the exits. At Lake Macquarie, there are moorings past the bridge on the way out, should the bar change before you got there; and mostly (like the Clarence) there's plenty of room for us to turn around, and we don't have the advantage of a spade rudder (ours is hung on a 3/4 skeg).

We follow Alan Lucas' advice about the entries and exits: wait till the run-in has begun to enter; wait till the surf has laid down to exit. Some of the NSW barred entrances have a whole lot of impounded water in back of them, that has to come out a small entry, guarded by rocky bits, and the outflow may be running at 7 knots at Foster-Tuncurry, for instance, so one does need to plan, and after heavy rains, sometimes the runout lasts for a whole tidal cycle. [This is also true for Macquarie Hbr., TAS, and "Hell's Gate", a real challenge for ships in the old days, without engines. Fortunately, Pilot's Bay offers protection from the strong SWs. The point being that anywhere with a lot of impounded water and a narrow, rocky exit/entrance is best entered or left when the water is flat and there is not too much current that you won't be able to control your boat.]

Ann

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

takeaway for me is - secure ropes, i mean really secure so they cannot get loose in severe wind&seas. Heard more than once ropes in propellers caused disaster.

Do they still make those rope cutters that attach ahead of the prop?
"The Stripper" or something. Can they attach to a sail drive?
Seems like they could be an investment.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by philcun50

That’s the problem with the NSW river ports like Port Macquarie, Yamba, etc, you really can’t turn back once you get a good look at it. If tide is running out the last thing you want to be is broadside to it especially in a cat. Much more prudent to observe from the shore and check weather forecast. I’ve been in and out these places lots and they scare me. With max speed of about 8 knots there ain’t much I can do other than just go for it.
Coming from Lake Macquarie which is an easy bar compared to these river ports I find ones like Wide Bay Bar ever so much more easy to negotiate.

There's plenty of room to turn in those entrance channels, especially for a cat. Full port rudder, stb motor full forward, port motor 2/3 reverse, you turn 180 degrees in no time.

Wide bay is a pretty good bar, with quite deep water. The biggest concern there is how long it takes, your exposure is longer than most bars.