U.S. Warship Just Collided With a Tugboat in Japanese Waters, or Misleading Report

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by skipmac

For sensationalism and to attract viewers, usually of the lowest common denominator.

I'm skeptical of all news but ABC may be the worst. Many years ago when I was flying ultralights ABC 20/20 did a story presenting ultralights in general and specifically the same model I flew, a canard design, as death traps.

They showed a video of a local news guy, a "trained pilot" flying the plane, the wings folded, it crashed and he died so they are all cheaply built toys that aren't safe to leave the ground.

I got to see the full, original video. It had been very selectively edited leaving out the parts where the news guy confessed he had never been in the plane before, had never flown a canard design before, where he was told by the instructor to do nothing but taxi in a circle. Instead he took off, panicked, over-corrected the pitch, went into oscillation over-stressed the air frame and crashed. But that story wasn't exciting enough so ABC completely fabricated a "better" story from the bits.

After seeing that my faith in TV news was pretty much gone.

I'm old enough to remember the news media concocting a story about how dangerous a Chevrolet pickup truck was in a side impact because of the location of its gas tank.
They said it could explode in a crash, but when they set up a fake crash, it didn't explode or even catch fire.
So, to make a good news story, they rigged one with explosive rocket devices and filmed it exploding for their "news story".

The best part was they got caught. GM sued.

NBC go BOOM!

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by newhaul

the ship was likely being towed away from the pier to get underway when the tug lost power and inertia did the rest. No time to do anything evasive. ( especially when still leashed to the tug.) Jmho.

i duno. navy ship should not allow these random events. If ship has 50 crew, I would think at least 5 should be on watch at all times & all electronics. And be ready to jump on a second's notice.

maybe I watched too many old movies.... and reality is different.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i duno. navy ship should not allow these random events. If ship has 50 crew, I would think at least 5 should be on watch at all times & all electronics. And be ready to jump on a second's notice.

maybe I watched too many old movies.... and reality is different.

what can they do if the tug was pulling them away from the pier when it lost propulsion. Nothing.

[navysurfer]

Number 45 at helm, Jap ship Rams USS. Nimitz Carrier, said bad deal, Bigly,,, sad,,, big boats, lots of water . I know more about ships then then captains do.

45 quickly jets to golf course, to discuss fate of the world.

More news at 5...

I simply could not help myself.

I am sorry, wait no I am not.

Navy Vet, myself......

[AJ_n_Audrey]

As described by former Navy folks in the other threads on this topic (the two collisions and the one grounding), the problem appears to be over-scheduling the guys and gals on the ships so that no one is getting adequate sleep. Several former Navy guys described falling asleep on their feet while on duty on the bridge (I can attest it is possible to sleep standing up). Also, the Navy purposely cut back on training prior to assigning folks to ships with the idea that they would get most of their training OJT. This was done because of inadequate staffing levels allowed by Congress which means they have to get newbies out to the fleet quickly to keep staffing up in the fleet. Congress likes to spend money on hardware, especially hardware bought from companies in their districts, but are less interested in adequate troop levels. Finally, the leadership displayed by the captains of the ships involved in the collisions was way below what would be expected, i.e., your ship is transiting one of the most crowded seaways in the world (Singapore in one case, Japan in the other), and you, the captain decide it would be a good time to get some sleep.

I served in the Army, not Navy, but this all sounds familiar. The US Military has a can-do attitude that makes it very hard to say, "We're trying to do too much - we're going to wear people out". God bless those young men and women - they have great hearts and will do everything you ask them to, so it is the leader's job to know when they are asking too much, and give them a break.

Anyhow, the tug drifting into the Benfold is a nothing story, but given the 7th Fleet's record thus far this year, it's understandable that it draws attention.

[navysurfer]

I think the Navy ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time , no fault of the Captain. Who knows,, if he altered course it could have caused more damage and risk of life, its to easy to speculate.

I stand by the Captain and crew until all the facts are in. Thanks Vets, all of them...

[navysurfer]

AJ pretty much nailed it, IMHO. Thanks for your service Army.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by navysurfer

I think the Navy ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time , no fault of the Captain. Who knows,, if he altered course it could have caused more damage and risk of life, its to easy to speculate.

I stand by the Captain and crew until all the facts are in. Thanks Vets, all of them...

as a fellow navy vet ( engineer ( my sea and anchor detail was fo'c'sle burner)
ship getting underway with tug pulling her out of her berth tug looses power there is literally nothing the ship could have done.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

As described by former Navy folks in the other threads on this topic (the two collisions and the one grounding), the problem appears to be over-scheduling the guys and gals on the ships so that no one is getting adequate sleep. Several former Navy guys described falling asleep on their feet while on duty on the bridge (I can attest it is possible to sleep standing up). Also, the Navy purposely cut back on training prior to assigning folks to ships with the idea that they would get most of their training OJT. This was done because of inadequate staffing levels allowed by Congress which means they have to get newbies out to the fleet quickly to keep staffing up in the fleet. Congress likes to spend money on hardware, especially hardware bought from companies in their districts, but are less interested in adequate troop levels. Finally, the leadership displayed by the captains of the ships involved in the collisions was way below what would be expected, i.e., your ship is transiting one of the most crowded seaways in the world (Singapore in one case, Japan in the other), and you, the captain decide it would be a good time to get some sleep.



I served in the Army, not Navy, but this all sounds familiar. The US Military has a can-do attitude that makes it very hard to say, "We're trying to do too much - we're going to wear people out". God bless those young men and women - they have great hearts and will do everything you ask them to, so it is the leader's job to know when they are asking too much, and give them a break.



Anyhow, the tug drifting into the Benfold is a nothing story, but given the 7th Fleet's record thus far this year, it's understandable that it draws attention.

That is pretty much it, plus there was this attitude that you can be trained to do without sleep, that we can toughen you up and you can handle it. Army learned better during the Regan era and pretty much abandoned it.
I can remember in the NCO academy at Ft Stewart many years ago being on watch in my fox hole, we were taking the instant coffee out of the MRE’s and putting it between our lip and gum like people do with tobacco to try to stay awake. It seemed to work, most likely the horrid taste and fear of being caught asleep, and in basic I remember people marching off into a ditch, they were asleep, but marching. Decades ago the Military knew that what you have is an awake drunk so to speak, your body is awake but your mental faculties are not.
It’s sort of like giving a drunk coffee, all you have is a wide awake drunk, they are not sober, just awake.
We even had pilots taking barbiturates to sleep, and being awakened and given amphetamines to fly the mission, however it was discovered that drugged sleep is not restful, and being hopped up on speed wasn’t good either, so that was scrapped.

Seems that the Military is returning to the we can train you to do without sleep and toughen you up?

In WWII the Wehrmacht was certainly addicted to amphetamines, it’s interesting reading about what that did physically and especially emotionally, answers a lot of questions.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

The title should read: Tugboat loses power, collides with US Warship.

But the post was ABC fake news. Anything to make a headline. Wouldn't have been as dramatic, "Tug loses power and drifts in front of USN ship.". Could have been any of the fake news feeds.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cadence

But the post was ABC fake news. Anything to make a headline. Wouldn't have been as dramatic, "Tug loses power and drifts in front of USN ship.". Could have been any of the fake news feeds.

I don’t think “fake”
I think it was actually just an excuse to go on about how bad they say the Navy is. Look at the article, pretty much none of it was about this tug accident was it?

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Cadence

But the post was ABC fake news. Anything to make a headline. Wouldn't have been as dramatic, "Tug loses power and drifts in front of USN ship.". Could have been any of the fake news feeds.

Fake news exactly. Many so-called mainline media have editors who consistently lie with their headlines.

Its why I would never bother to open an ABC webpage.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think “fake”
I think it was actually just an excuse to go on about how bad they say the Navy is. Look at the article, pretty much none of it was about this tug accident was it?

I wouldn't even call it an accident it was just a minor incident. Stuff like this happens every day.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think “fake”
I think it was actually just an excuse to go on about how bad they say the Navy is. Look at the article, pretty much none of it was about this tug accident was it?

I doubt they specifically have an axe to grind with the Navy. It's anything for a headline which encourages advertisements and revenue. It is a competitive business. It sucks but it is what it is. The major news feeds are stooping to the level of the tabloids.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I doubt they specifically have an axe to grind with the Navy. It's anything for a headline which encourages advertisements and revenue. It is a competitive business. It sucks but it is what it is. The major news feeds are stooping to the level of the tabloids.

right up with. " if it bleeds it leads" and if it don't then make it . You are correct about it being all about the money